Floyd Patterson vs Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Glass jaw just means easy to knock out. So when you read "glass jaw" and it bothers you, just supplant it for "easy to knock out."
     
  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    People always qualify Williams by saying "before he was shot" as if he proved himself some kind of great fighter before he was shot. The problem with this logic is Williams only really consistently fought threatening opposition AFTER he was shot. Before he was shot his record was ridiculously padded. Not coincidentally I would argue every time he stepped up before he was shot he either lost, got a draw, or despite being this supposed knockout puncher he went the distance (and thats against B and C level fighters that I would consider a "step up" during this period in his career). So a question begs to be asked whether Williams was really better before he was shot or simply faced better opposition after and as a result lost consistently. Because frankly you can watch pre gunshot Williams and post gunshot Williams and I dont see a difference in him physically. Not the way he moves, his speed, style, technique, nothing. As he got on in age he slowed down more but I dont think we can see he slowed down any more than any other post 30 yr old fighter. The idea that he was some fast athletic power puncher is silly IMO. Even in his prime he was a straight up and down walk in slugger who had a stiff style that wouldnt have suited him against more athletic HWs with talent.
     
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I know this. You are teaching me nothing here.

    Both of these guys were as easy to knockout as each other. Neither one is super durable are they?

    Patterson was actually not that easy to knockout. He got up all those times. And so did Williams.

    So, like I said, if it was a thing, Williams has it too.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Thank god for some actual common sense. I was starting to think I was going mad!

    This is exactly how I see it.

    Williams first career in the 1950s was a total Billy fox type set up. A novice called Sylvester Jones still exposed him. When He came back after the Satterfeild episode with more set ups the loss to Liston somehow made him. Between Liston and Ali Williams actually fought some known ham and egger types. Some reasonable points wins. Drew with Machen. That’s it. Then as you say, after the shooting he got better guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    ...okay.

    But if you say something like "nobody has a glass jaw", someone will probably tell you what that means and why you're wrong.

    Maybe you were pretending to believe that "nobody has a glass jaw", which would also be odd, but whatever.
     
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    There’s nothing odd apart from your paranoia over my rational and backed up statements.
    Punch resistance is mostly anticipation and conditioning. Everything else is just an expression.

    Williams, for all his size was probably more likely to be decked by a good fighter than Patterson was.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: what are you on about choklab? All i've done is explain what glass jaw meant when you said there was no such thing then explained why I explained it when you said "you're teaching me nothing".

    What, exactly, am I supposed to be paranoid about?
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You said I was crazy when all I said was “if Patterson has a glass jaw so does Williams”. What’s crazy about that? That’s not me saying I don’t know what a glass jaw is. That’s not me saying both have a glass jaw either. That’s me saying they both got knocked down. You must tell me what is crazy about this before your next rude post where you will try to confuse the things I have said. What is crazy about it?

    I believe that there is no proof that Williams has a better chin than Floyd because he dosnt. I can back that up. It’s true.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Aye, that's fine, I agree, but you've said a bunch of really strange things since then. But I guess best left, there's obviously some upset i'm not aware of.

    No you said that in the post immediately after I think:


    I know; you've told me this, I think, four times now. It's in every one of your posts to me during this discussion. Every one. This is despite the fact that I have never disagreed with you on the matter; never even mentioned it to you. I haven't been talking to you about it; i have no interest in it. And you keep defending the opinion with variations on the same word in every post. It's really odd.

    Do you see why it looks a little strange when you start accusing other people of paranoia?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    No, nothing strange at all.
    You said I was crazy.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well or example this:

    Directed at someone who hasn't tried to discuss any of this with you, hasn't disagreed with you about this, hasn't even mentioned any of this, is pretty odd behaviour by my eye. A little paranoid even!

    And as I said in my last post, i'm in agreement with your explanation and I can see this word has triggered you somehow; so it's probably best left.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes, I won’t hold it against you calling me crazy for absolutely no reason, but my answering you (with explanations you agree with) was in response to You chiming in to my response to Mcvey.

    I am not triggered or bothered. I just thought it excessive and odd you come right in like that and say I was crazy.

    No harm done.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No; an explanation is prompted by a requirement for accountancy. None exists. It was more like rambling or free-thinking.
    I didn't say I agreed with you.

    Good. FYI though, that's the third time you've mentioned it. Since it happened, I mean. Once in a very singular way. So you look triggered and bothered. FYI.
     
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  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    :lol:
     
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  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You think there is proof Williams has a better chin than Patterson? :sherlock:I would be amused if you can produce it.