Floyd Patterson vs Jack Dempsey

Patterson doesn't have to win by KO to win. You point to Patterson's deficiencies (and he certainly had them), yet Dempsey was hardly bulletproof. He was knocked out by Flynn (the main source for a fix seems to be Dempsey's ex-wife, who also made all kinds of other dubious and unflattering claims about him). He couldn't master Willie Meehan in five bouts. Firpo had him down twice and put him out of the ring. Carpentier wobbled him. Brennan gave him a tough fight. Tunney won nearly every round and dropped him. Who of the above was better than Patterson?

My point is really that this isn't the mismatch it's being painted as. What did Dempsey have or do that makes Patterson such a massive underdog? They're about the same size, and Dempsey never faced anyone with Patterson's combination of size, power and talent. He also never had to face Muhammad Ali or Sonny Liston, who account for four of Patterson's five KO losses. The men Dempsey did best against were the big, slow giants, not the smaller quicker men with skills. Patterson was stopped by three men in 20 years as a pro. Liston was the only man to put him down for the count. It doesn't automatically follow that Dempsey would too. You can say Dempsey would KO him because Ingo did, though Ingo was hardly a featherfist either and Patterson survived Ingo's power in their other two fights.

 

Dempsey by destruction.

 

A bit misleading since only a handful of Dempsey's fights were scheduled for more than 10 rounds. Gibbons, Miske and Tunney among others went the distance and Brennan went 12, which was also Dempsey's only late rounds KO.

As for Patterson being not-too-durable, the only guy who put him down for the count was a brute who would outweigh Dempsey by some 25lbs. I'm not convinced Liston doesn't KO Dempsey as well.

It shows he wasn't invincible and could be hurt and stopped.

Wasn't Dempsey supposed to be at his most dangerous in the early rounds? Meehan lasted a combined 20 rounds with Dempsey, and won more of them than Dempsey did. Did Dempsey even score a knockdown?

But then are obvious size and stylistic reasons why Lyle and Young would do better against Foreman than Patterson would. I don't see those with Brennan, Carpentier, Firpo et al over Patterson. Were they more skilled? Faster? More accomplished?

He was basically the same size as Dempsey.

Firpo was no defensive genius (or anything else) and he almost KO'd Dempsey by trading with him. Carpentier wobbled Dempsey and Brennan hurt him too. If they could do it, why couldn't a more accomplished opponent do better?

He still showed he could take Ingo's good right hand in the other fights.

Again, I could say that if Dempsey was wobbled by 170lb Carpentier, it doesn't bode well if he gets hit by Patterson's harder and faster right hand.

 

I agree

 

Its very simple, like Tyson-Spinks. One guy has EVERY physical advantage over the other.

The ONE advantage Patterson has over Dempsey is hand speed. It would do him no good. He doesn't hit hard enough to discourage Dempsey. He would certainly get his attention but no more than ****ing him off. Patterson simply doesn't take a punch well enough to survive more than a few rounds. He's fast of HAND, not FOOT so there would be no escape.

Dempsey won't hit Patterson as hard as Liston did and Patterson might not fear him as he did Liston. Patterson would last a few rounds because Dempsey doesn't have the benefit of the absence of a standing 8 count. He was quick enough to get the jump on his opponents and score first, thus keeping them in trouble, hence the reason he has so many early KOs.

Still its just simple numbers. Dempsey can punch. Patterson doesn't take a punch very well. Patterson is not a runner so Dempsey won't have far to search. Patterson is fast but his speed becomes a moot issue here.

Dempsey by KO in 3

 

Floyd was down against Rademacher ,Harris, Quarry x3 Liston x 6
Ingo 6/7? I forget how many! When Dempsey connects he is going to sleep.

 

Patterson has more than just hand speed on Dempsey. He's a better boxer, better footwork, higher ring iq, naturally larger in terms of muscle mass, way more experience going past 10 rounds, faced tougher opponents etc. Not saying he would win but you are selling him way short.

 

Once Dempsey gets inside which would be quick Patterson would be pulverized.

 

That's similar to what Clay (later Ali) said, pre Patterson vs Liston.

'Everybody who hits Patterson knocks him down. When Liston hits him, he won't get up'.

 

I would not take the word of ali like a proof of a truth. He said that foremsn was like a mummy before fighting foreman, after of the fight ali said that he did not expect that he was that fast.ali said also that Joe frazier was a slow dumb gorilla who could not fight,after of the third fight he realised how wrong he was. He could be right sometimes but he was wrong tons of times

 

I didn't say he was right or wrong.
I just quoted him.
Read my post again.

 

Yes i did read it... But its absolutely irrelevant here

 

He had most of these advantages over Liston, and look at the good it did him.