Foreman's comments on Ali's power...

That's cool Chris. As you guessed, I wasn't sure if your laughing icon was due to my suggestion that George was intelligent, or in response to the "truth serum" suggestion. (Thanks for the clarification.) Naw, my reply was only a "just in case" answer to the former meaning.

I don't recall Holmes refusing a rematch with "The Truth," but I'll take you at your word this was indeed the case.

Norton was widely expected to defeat Shavers easily, as surprising as that seems in retrospect, which would have made a rematch that much more profitable for both. On camera at least, Ken and Larry had a perfectly cordial and outwardly respectful relationship between their classic match and Norton's loss to Shavers.

The civility between them was actually a refreshing change from the manufactured animosity Ali created before many of his superfights. It may seem incredible to younger fans, but until the Berbick fight, Larry seemed actually to be a pretty easygoing sort, for the most part. After taking out Ali, his treatment by the press, such things as the way he was disrespected before facing Cooney (Gerry getting introduced to the crowd after him, a phone line in Cooney's dressing room to The White House, but not in Larry's dressing room, the way ABC brought Cooney ringside after Larry's win over Leon Spinks detracted from it, etc...), gradually embittered him. Yet, everybody I know who has met him in person has had only good things to say about him. (But the media is monarchist anyways, and to them, Ali is a king, Holmes merely a pretender.)

 

Exactly. Just yesterday at the gym Larry was kidding around with me and signed a book for someone and talked with them. Great, great man.

 

What did he say: "That'll be 20 bucks junior."

 

I can't blame you for mis-interpreting that, certainly my attitude gave you reason for it. I gotta say i have learnt a thing or two about drugs from reading your posts. Then again, after studying Holmes' opponents you must have gained a lot of knowlegde on that subject (not taking anything away from Holmes, just the way the 80's were).

By the way, Holmes wasn't really classy about Cooney even before the phone line to the White house, getting introduced after him etc. He walked around with a huge chip on his shoulder, saying that Cooney would've been nothing if he was black, etc. Certainly there was a lot of truth to that, but the way he kept saying it just made the impression of a bitter man.

To be honest, my impression is that he tried to do what Ali did: degrade his opponents and become more popular. Larry's problem was that he came across as being arrogant (selfish, pretentious, etc) whereas Ali came across as cocky (arrogant+funny, magic formula). He missed the "funny" part and became very unpopular as a result.

I think Lewis tried exactly the same but also missed the funny part. He did have some funny things, but it looked very forced unlike Ali where it came naturally. Lewis, while arrogant, was very relaxed though (barring the post-Klitschko-fight interview), and not as bitter as Holmes.

 

Nothing you couldn't have learned yourself through on-line access. (Let's face it: I've got waaayyy too much time on my hands!)

 

LOL, he charges $10. J/K. Its all free.

 

Larry was bitter, but didn't walk around with a chip on his shoulder. Pretty much your buying into the image the media portrayed of him. Larry isn't and didn't try to be anyone but him self. He likes to have fun, and that isn't copying Ali. I like to have fun and stuff, but am I copying Ali? No. Larry had reason to dislike Cooney (or at least think to) Rappaport and King had a lot to do with Larry's bitterness going into the Cooney fight, and fans didn't help either. Someone did a drive by shooting on his resturant building in Easton. People blew up his mail boxes threatend his wife and him. His wife couldn't even leave the house alone safely. Larry had to carry a pistol around, and he had to watch his back. While that was troubling him enough Rappaport (IMO an A grade ass hole and liar) and King were building up the great white hope bull ****. Larry isn't bitter now either. He never had a chip on his shoulder, just a temper and hates liars, bull shitters etc. Here is a good documentary on Holmes-Cooney:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMrPsWiNU0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cuRPbGA3Dg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U83pGLaLaKc

and here is Larry Holmes: Beyond the glory. Unfortunately, they show the sucky fighters in the gym. I joined a few months after this was filmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al5wMT3NdUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=256PlVH-sRs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkjoFAvszsc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jontJAbZAfM

 

Bill,

what does Holmes think of Cooney now a days? Or does nobody want to ask him?

 

I'm under the impression they are great friends. Holmes has commented on the work Cooney is doing with FIST and helps out when he can.

 

Larry and Cooney are great friends. Larry is a big part of Cooney's FIST foundation helping retired boxers in need. Larry has several pictures of him with Cooney on the walls of the gym.

 

Thanks for the reply to my post, Duodenum - you are an excellent poster!

Sodium Pentathol may just do the trick

I really think George thinks the world of Marciano... which may slant his opinion in his (Marciano's) favour. Perhaps the same could be said of Ali, Frazier etc.

You make a good point regarding LaStarza... Rocky would have been diminished if he lost to LaStarza. Simple fact of the matter is boxing history has already dictated Rocky beat LaStarza, twice. I don't think Rocky ever went into a fight wanting to hurt the other guy, except where LaStarza is concerned. Rocky proved beyond a reasonable person's doubt he was better than LaStarza in the second fight.

I think Patterson is overrated in Foreman's list. Like you, I think Floyd, and his obvious boxing skill, may have served to inflate his position in Foreman's eyes. I'll give Patterson a top 15... on the outside looking in at the real top 10s.

George needs to give himself a bit more credit on a top ten list. He certainly belongs amongst the ATG top 10 HWs in my opinion! Just an opinion, of course, but one few people would argue with!

 

Rocco - Marciano never wanted to hurt a guy? Right. All those punches after the bell, headbutts, hitting a guy when he was down were just his showing his affection.

 

Holmes and Cooney are a good combination.. today!

Why Holmes acted the way he did in the past towards Cooney, was, quite frankly, Holmes being himself - at that particular point in time. I think Holmes has changed a lot, personality wise, over the years. Being a combative sort is what made him great in his boxing prime. Asking him to not be that way, at that time, is like asking the sky to be purple..... It was his nature at that point in time.

All people change!

 

Except Gene Fullmer and Joey Giardello! (How many posters on ESB have seen the heat between those two at the IBHOF's Induction Weekends? Some people never grow up!)