If Tokyo Douglas could beat Joe Frazier at his best then he'd probably beat Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano too.
I don't know how Frazier ever made it in boxing. Short armed, weak chinned, one dimensional; a one armed fighter, to boot. Yet he beat the "GOAT" once and gave him hell every time they fought? By definition Ali must have been pretty ****, too.
He had what many here don't understand. ATG will to win, courage, killer instinct and he was trained to fight 15 hard rounds. All this plus one of Boxings all time left hooks, great bobbing and weaving defense and quick hands. In his prime a formidable challenger for most anyone.
99.9 recurring % of fighters have courage otherwise they wouldn't get in the ring in the first place now would they? So that is just emotive cliche on your part. even Gatti had ATG " will to win " How many dozens of fighters have you seen vehemently protesting a stoppage, when it is obvious to everyone they have taken enough punishment except the fighter himself? I think you will find that is called " the will to win " So what is your point?:think Taking a good beating like Frazier took from Ali / Foreman, and Tyson took from Douglas / Holyfield is admirable but it is hardly original. Fighters have taken those kind of beatings for decades. Try watching Ike Williams / Beau Jack.
Its a strange logic I agree, I love Ali but it always amazed me how the same guys that believe Ali to be the greatest dismiss Frazier, its incomprehensible, if Ali was great so was Frazier, you can't have one without the other. But it is as it always is, Ali wins every possible match up but Joe Louis, Marciano, Frazier and rest were untalented bums...
I agree with nearly all of this Mr M.Douglas did not display that fortitude against Tucker, however he did show it against Tyson ,coming off the floor to ko the champion. Which is why I stipulated the "Tokyo Douglas" in the thread, despite it causing some mirth among some sceptics I believe I was justified in making that distinction.
The worst part of that " quit " in the Tucker fight is it was dead level on the cards. It was a fight he could have won. Perhaps that is why his own father labelled him a dog, and didn't speak to him for a good while afterwards.
I can both see and appreciate your point. But if we're honest, when was the Douglas of the Tokyo bout ever really under extreme pressure or in a situation where he didn't have things going his way? Is it totally out of the question that he might have beaten Joe Frazier that evening? No it isn't. But could he have performed in the same exact way if Frazier successfully managed to do things that Tyson didn't like slip his jab, go to the body, overwhelm him with his work rate and land with regularity? I don't know if we'd see the same result.
I don't think folks realize just how good FOTC Frazier was. He was an absolute non-stop ball of ferocious energy. Constantly coming forward quickly with consistent head movement and firing blazing blows and counters as he forced his way in. He was relentless, and cornered Ali constantly. Ali's jaw puffed up. Sure Ali had the 3-year layoff and wasn't the same, but he was still one hell of a fighter, had two tune-ups against top-ten contenders, and anyone who doesn't think he trained his ass off for Frazier is delusional. Ali had tremendous pride and work ethic, knew it was a huge fight, and if he had not been in top condition, he would have been knocked out. Frazier absolutely brutalized him, particularly late in that fight. There is no way in hell that Douglas would take any of the hundreds of brutal hooks that Frazier landed on Ali's jaw and body, and he certainly would not have survived the 11th round the way Ali did. Frazier, on the other hand, would have taken anything that Douglas landed, as he did with Ali. Personally, I don't see Douglas lasting all that long because he would quickly wilt under that nonstoop ferocity. Frazier would not sleepwalk slowly forward without head movement and just throw a single shot here and there, a jab here and there, and slow down. His ravenous pace would only get faster as he got warmed up to the task, and seeing this, the true character of Douglas would be revealed. He only got up against Tyson because he was beating the living hell out of Tyson throughout that fight. With Frazier, he would be getting beat up and he would not get up.