If George could literally push Joe around with ease and make him continually reset how would Rocky do any better? He's lighter, shorter, and has less of a reach.
I don't think any version of Frazier (including FOTC) beats George Foreman in Jamaica on January 1973. It's the ultimate kryptonite matchup for Joe no matter what!
So we're going to add the intense, indignant hatred that Joe brought to the FOTC? Because the Joe of that fight was made perfect precisely through that profound loathing. I think Joe was going to die before getting beaten that night, and I don't see any other heavyweight beating him with that kind of apocalyptic motivation as impetus. Foreman finds a different fighter here; things are very hairy early on for Joe, but the ref stops it when Foreman (exhausted and easily as perplexed as we was against Ali) gets floored and stopped in the 10th.
I give Frazier a much better chance than most people here, but I'd still bet on George. But that would be a dangerous gamble.
Mike Tyson told Razor Ruddock "I'm going to make you my girlfriend." Might as well have called him a f------ or a punk a-- ***** which is the worst thing a Black man can say to another Black man. Why didn't the hate that had to engender carry Razor to victory?
So if A hates B enough he can overcome the worst stylistic and physical disadvantages in the annals of boxing history. George fought until he was six hundred years old, was only stopped once, and all his defeats came at the hands of those who fought him cautiously. Frazier's crouching style made him an easy target for Foreman's uppercuts, one of which literally lifted him off the canvas and spinned him around.
Ali hit far deeper nerves with Frazier, questioning even his “blackness” and basic intelligence. Plus, Ruddock was never anywhere near the quality fighter Joe was. I’m positive you know that, no offense intended.
Joe Frazier is a consensus top ten great. Razor Ruddock was at least two tiers below. Foreman is just s stylistic nightmare for Frazier. He had no answer for Foreman's uppercuts. It's not a function of lacking the proper motivation. Sometimes you can watch a fight and see the loser doing things a little differently in a rematch and emerging victorious. The Leonard -Duran trilogy is the perfect example or Louis-Schmeling. All Louis had to change is look out for that right. Joe would have had to become a different fighter.
I was answering a specific question about Ruddock and Frazier, not suggesting Frazier beats Foreman. Styles make fights and I think Foreman is all kinds of wrong for fighters like Joe, any version of Joe.
I sympathize with so much of this. I just don’t see anyone surviving the onslaught of ferocity-fueled FOTC Frazier.
Some fighters never can beat others. No version of Bob Foster beats prime Frazier. No version of Michael Spinks beats 1988 Mike Tyson and no version of Frazier beats Foreman. Also no version of Jake Paul beats Anthony Joshua.