Lets be fair to me its not like he struggled with a sick Nogueira he totally destroyed him and knocked him out without any trouble whatsoever. I think the rematch if or hopefully when it happens would be competitive. Id favor Nogueira though but Mirs proved he can do it already.
In his fight against Randy he looked like he had massivly more energy. This is the Randy who in his previous fight put up a hell of a lot more resistance vs Lensar than Mir did the second time around. Nog if he fights like he did vs Randy would beat Frank Mir.
yeah i can't believe that nog has on this forum almost instantly transformed himself from the walking dead to the guy who might beat lesner
A lot of people are missing a huge factor; Nog isn't really any less faded than he was before Randy, fighters don't get young again. What's closer to reality is that Randy is also fading and fading fast; his chin is not nearly what it once was. Nog has very little power in his punches but knocked randy down. Nog vs Randy was a fight between two fighters very much at the end of their careers, to take away the idea that Nog is somehow different than he was in his other UFC fights is not accurate. He got nearly KOd by Herring, nearly KOd by Sylvia, and nearly KOd by Mir before Mir finally finished the job. Of course there is the typical Brazilian excuses after the loss, but very rarely is any fighter 100% healthy in a fight. The gulf in class in every aspect between Mir and Nog in their fight has much more to do with Nog fading rather than any injuries he had; the signs have been there for several fights, Mir is just a better fighter than Herring and Sylvia so it showed much more. Even if Nog's standup would look better in a rematch, his formerly unrivaled chin will continue to get worse; that thing has more miles on it than anybody in MMA, and the human body has it's limits. Once it goes it doesn't ever come back, Liddell, Wanderlei, and now Randy are proof of this. On the ground it's not much of an advantage for Nog; it really comes down to style differences than quality at this point. Nog does his best work from the guard, but he often let's his opponent retain posture to set up his subs and sweeps; Mir will be very hard to sweep and even harder to sub. Mir also does his best work from guard but he closes down space more, not giving his opponent the ability to posture up. One advantage Mir has on the ground is the force and quickness he can slap on a sub that works even if it's not textbook; his armsnap against Sylvia, that sort of one armed americana shoulder lock from guard against Pete Williams, and his kneebar that was actuall more on the shin on Lesnar are perfect examples. Nog can quickly apply subs as well too, don't be me wrong, he also has a bag of tricks that most people don't see much; the anaconda was very rare in MMA before he used it twice in the GP. So on the ground there's a world of possibilities, but in my mind it can be broken down to Nog being a little smoother, and Mir being more powerful and having a better base. On the feet Nog will really be playing with fire, not because Mir is so great or powerful, but because he is used to having an iron chin and he no longer does; Nog's chin could also be a factor on the ground. Yes you are thinking "but Fedor couldn't finish with GnP, no way Mir can" but all that abuse adds up, and if he can be KO'd on the feet he can on the ground. I would have to make Mir the favorite in that fight. I think the problems Nog has had are all still there and going to get worse rather than better, but Randy has the same problems so it didn't show as much in that fight.
my point is how bad posters are at rating fighters. either they were completely wrong to write nog off as a corpse or they are hugely overating him now off of one win. hard to tell which it is
I completely agree dude. I was just pointing out that the same thing happened with Frank Mir. That dude was finished. Stopped brutally by Vera. Was getting Mauled by Lesnar until he got that ankle, then looked great against Nog, but then got destroyed by Lesnar. This is why I can't wait to see Mir against Kongo to see where he is exactly.
I don't think Mir is a more skillful fighter. I know Nog has been fading and continues to do so but his fight again Mir was unlike ANYthing we've seen before. I wanna know how much he really has faded and how much of it was just the sickness and injuries.
Mir might not get passed Kongo :deal I'd like to see Crocop fight Mir, if they both win their next fights. Let Nog fight Gonzaga, or just give the title shot to Nog based on his impressive win over Randy.
You don't think Mir is more skillful than Herring and Sylvia? Or just not more skillful than Nog? He clearly is more skilled than the first two, and he doesn't really need to be more than Nog. Nog might be more skilled, but his ability to use that skill is fading, and has been since at least the Herring fight. I think the reason he looked so different against Mir is that Herring and Sylvia just weren't good enough, and Randy, much like Nog, is also losing his ability to employ his skills. I think the Randy fight was always going to be flattering to the winner, because both guys are sadly not what they once were.:verysad
Just Nog obviously. I think Nog has faded but I still think he can do very well in the division. Same way with Randy. I don't think he lost his ability during Liddell vs Couture era and then all of a sudden reached his prime at 44 and became HW champ and now he's fading again. He's been "fading" for some time in terms of his overall effectiveness. I think he's reached his prime(skill/age balance at it's peak of effectiveness) somewhere during his light weight championship days. Randy's HW run was just a testament to mediocrity of the UFC HWs at the time. I think Randy said it himself, one of his biggest motivating factors to return was the weak HW division. I think Nog, probably hope more than anything, is that Nog in the same situation where UFC HW division is not enough to stop him from making another run at the title. I think his performance in a rematch against Mir would shed some light on this. If he loses, it's him overall that is fading. If he wins, than it truly could have been his illness and injury that prevented his "ability to use" the skills that he has rather than age. I think he has been fading but we also can't overreact on some elements. His "poor" performance against Sylvia and Herring is not unheard of in his career. The whole way he fights is like a rope-a-dope on his head, he'll get his head pounded in for 20 minutes than somehow pull a win out of his ass.
Mir is too explosive standing for Nog's old reflexe. Combine that with Nog's chin and it will be the same result. Couture was landing at will on Nog but Couture's never had very much power or explosion. Mir seem to have this. I would like to see it to see Mir TKO him again. Nog is shot.