George Foreman , overrated ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GordonGarner65, Mar 4, 2017.


  1. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    I keep getting into chats on this subject, so thought it time to make it a thread.
    Look, i like the guy and he's a piece of cement in the wall of boxing history.
    However, i see guys like Tyson, Lennox,Larry, Bowe, being picked apart on here, but this guy gets a sleigh ride.
    Beat a long long list of mostly no names before blowing out a poor version of Frazier.
    Then did same v Norton. Every credit.
    After that ?
    Exposed/ unmasked /embarrased v Ali
    Put on his arse.
    Lyle then puts him on his backside twice .
    He beats a few no names and a 95% done Frazier, before getting embarrased by Young, who he couldnt outbox or outblast.
    Then retired.
    Came back and beat a bunch of guys so anonymous , only their mothers would know they were alive.
    Then beat decent 'B' graders Stewart and Cooper.
    Schooled By Holyfield
    Outboxed by Morrison.
    Landed a right hand on sloppy Moorer
    Then avoided anybody strong enough to carry the grocery's.
    Defended against Crawford Grimsley !!
    I'd say George Foreman ( or George Morehead) to give him his correct name , has fewer wins Versus Elite oppostion than any other ATG HW.
    Also ended up on his backside more often in his prime than any other ATG.
    Lennox gets enough stick for 2 avenged knockouts.
    George gets an easier ride for a FAR worse record.
    Eg; Lennox beats at least 12-15 serious contenders
    GF beats a fraction of this and is handed his ass on several occasions.
    He is the most wildy overrated HW of modern times IMO .
    Anybody disagreeing needs to list his wins against top fighters / at/ near their prime ( the list will be very short).
    Your views ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
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  2. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    With all respect, I disagree with you, and here's why.

    Foreman is a unique boxer, who won Olympic gold medal in 60's, won the HW championsip of the world in 70's AND won the HW championsip of the world in 90's. That's three decades apart.

    No one could repeat in at any weight.

    But as for list of top-opponents he had defeated, yes, it's short compared to other TOP-10 HWs. Holmes, Holyfield, Lennox, Tyson had more wins over top-ranked opponents than Big George.

    Skillwise Big George was very flawed in the 70's, but improved his defense in his 40's.

    So I won't call him overrated despite the fact that other ATG HWs had better skills and longer list of top-opponents they defeated.
     
  3. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    I really like that reply.
    You've disagreed with me but done it with class, without insult and with reasoning.
    I salute you sir.
    Yes i get where you are coming from , whilst standing by the fundamentals of my orginal post.
     
  4. ticar

    ticar Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    yes i think he's a little overrated.

    yes, he is strong and could punch hard.

    but people act like he is the ultimate hw slugger and that is impossible to brawl with him, when in reality only two big man he fought in his 1st career had him on canvas (ali, lyle). His chin was bad when he ran out of gas, and his defense was poor.

    His skill set was limited and he relied on over powering his opponents which worked cause he was always bigger and stronger, and that would not be the case if he fought some skilled shws that came after.

    but in his short peak he was confident, strong, marching foward, agressive, could punch and take a shot... a dangerous fighter for few rounds.
     
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  5. lloydturnip

    lloydturnip Well-Known Member Full Member

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  6. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    Yes !
     
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  7. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    Ok.
    Here we go.
    His list of wins to justify ?
     
  8. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Many posters have said only Ali (of the modern boxing era) could have beaten George. And then George turned into a preacher, grill salesman, and basically a part-time fighter. It was a fun ride for the fan.
     
  9. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    Just because Ali did it, doesnt mean somebody else couldnt have ?
    Im sticking to my question , which is overall , is he overrated ?
     
  10. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    Lets try it by numbers.
    Of modern HW champs, i guess Ali/Lewis/Tyson/ had MINIMUM of a dozen wins over quality oppostion seen as real threats.
    How many did George have ?
    And how many times /how many fighters put him on his backside.
    He just doesnt have an ATG resume to me.
     
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  11. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You're talking an extremist view clearly in my view.

    3 fighters put Foreman down (Ali, Lyle, Young) two of which were more through exhaustion than anything and the other was a legitimate big puncher. As a fat 40+ fighter he met and was hit by noted punchers in Cooney, Morrison, Briggs and Stewart and wasn't even staggered, Holyfied bounced combinations off him and he remained upright all fight. Down a total of 4 times in 80 fights. His chin is the last thing questionable about him.

    You say Frazier was poor but how many other fighters did that to him? Ali couldn't come close to doing what Foreman did to Frazier. We are talking about one of the great champions in Frazier and George obliterated him. I don't think Tyson or Lewis have a win as good as that over a legit undefeated ATG heavyweight champ. It was hardly Holmes-Ali that's for damn sure. Frazier went on to have good performances after Foreman destroyed him (Bugner, Quarry2, Manilla) so there was still plenty of fight left in Joe but George was simply too much.

    And making light of his win over Moorer is unfair completely. Moorer was an undefeated 26 year old two division champion who's just dethroned an ATG in Holyfield. Sure we now know he was flawed but we didn't then and George didn't get side-tracked in his mission to defeat him despite being schooled for 9 rounds, out sped, out landed, being 45 years old and inactive. That he hang tough to defeat an undefeated champion who was 19 years younger show the strength of his will and his heart. It was and remains a remarkable achievement. Compare how Mike Tyson was doing against fighters like Williams and McBride when he was a full decade younger than George was against Moorer to get a picture of just how highly that performance should rank.

    I'm awake to your criticisms of Foreman and agree with some to an extent. He did fight a lot of filler (though to be fair if you dissect any heavyweight champs resume you'll find a fair bit of that) and he could look sloppy and slow on occasion. But he was also brutally effective, tough and brave and his achievements after losing his way post Zaire are a credit to him and were fantastic for the sport.
     
  12. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali
    Holmes
    Tyson
    Holyfield
    Lennox
    Wlad

    All of them had beaten at least 12 top-10 contenders at the time they have fought them.

    Foreman's list is shorter, it's certainly less than 10.

    I think Big George COULD have had that deep resume too, had he fought better opposition before 73, and had he not retired in 77 for 10 years.

    But it is as it is. Foreman's resume isn't deep enough for someone with 81 fights.
     
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  13. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    Totally agree, thats my point.
     
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  14. GordonGarner65

    GordonGarner65 Active Member Full Member

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    I appreciate your post and it has some merit.
    But post Lyle, Can you simpy list his wins against classy opponents at or near their prime ?
    I will start your list..
    1. Moorer

    For an ATG that looks a little thin ?
     
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  15. juppity

    juppity Boxing Addict Full Member

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    young griffo sums it up well. A lot of Ali legacy is built on his trilogy with Frazier and Norton.
    Foreman massacred these opponents. His second career GF was 40 +. People don't
    remember apart from Archie Moore , Hopkins and Foreman which other fighters were
    champions at 40 + competitive with fighters more than 10 decade younger.
     
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