George Foreman , overrated ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GordonGarner65, Mar 4, 2017.


  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Def depends on the person and the style. Everyone ages differently imo 99.9 pct of boxers can’t competitively box at that age although boxers are staying older and older mainly due to performance enhancers. Imo
     
  2. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    When George came back at age 38 it was considered very old for a fighter, even a heavyweight. Remember, Foreman vs. Cooney was billed as "Two Geezers at Caesars" and Cooney was 33 at the time. Larry Holmes was not yet 34 when he started showing signs of slipping against Witherspoon. Hagler was not quite 33 when he was "old" against Leonard. Foreman's comeback helped change how we perceive boxing age.
     
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  3. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In reality heavyweights fight at slow pace and the guys are more lazy than other divisions. That is why he could do well. Hopkins winning at the age he did is more impressive.
     
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So in essence you are saying Foreman was not the "legitimate" Heavyweight champion when he knocked the lineal undefeated champion in Moorer out cold? The Moorer who had just beaten Evander Holyfield who in turn had just beaten Riddick Bowe?

    Lennox Lewis had been stopped just 2 months earlier by McCall so he certainly wasn't in the mix at that point in time.

    Mike Tyson was in jail so he very definitely wasn't in the mix.

    Holyfield and Bowe weren't in the mix at that exact point as Moorer beat Holyfield and he'd just beaten Bowe who had only an NC to his name at that point post Holyfield.
     
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    On what planet is Foreman not "one of the greatest ever"?
     
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  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bingo. George was a plodder at this point comparative to what he'd been. Bowe was a peak heavyweight and a damn good one.
     
  7. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This. Calling Foreman overrated is going too far, but clever fighters were his kryptonite. Lyle was also a really strong fighter that could punch, but didn’t match up well to clever fighters.
     
  8. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It is relative to where he is being ranked and how high on that list he is for heavyweight. He was great, but one of the greatest ever p4p? No way. Heavyweight ok where? Possibly top 10.. Frazier was a great win. Ali he was outclassed and had a great fight with Lyle and lost to Young. Comes back fought ok guys and loses to Evander moving up from lower, Morrison. outboxes him and Moorer a lightheavyweight. The comment initially was about Moorer, and that fight was not one of the greatest wins ever. I don't see long term domination. I spoke about this in another thread recently talking about the amount of title fights Foreman had compared to Tyson.
     
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  9. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It matters where people say he should be ranked? Top 5 heavyweights? He just does not have the wins or consistency.
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who was talking P4P tho? You mentioned another heavyweight in your post. Where do you rate him at Heavyweight?

    So a light heavyweight beat Holyfield who had just beaten Bowe?

    I get the premise that Foreman really did have things fall his way, for sure, but one has to keep it real too.
     
  11. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I really don't see how if he beat Bowe (which honestly I hate to say this but fanman might have had a role in that one)-also, he stopped by Bowe in the last fight. Moorer had a weak chin and no way was he a great heavyweight champion. That was really a great win? With Foreman's power and Moorer's chin that was not shocking. Foreman had a lot going his way with power. He couldn't have done what he did without that power at that age. I thought he would be too strong for Holyfield and Evander beat him and hurt him at times. I thought he would stop Morrison and he was outboxed. Off the top of my head without writing out the list which I wrote out before, somewhere at about 11 or 12. This is more the Duran stuff here. When he came back if he loses ignore it he is old, but if he wins give him more credit to his greatness. That is not keeping it real.
     
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Holyfield hadn't been stopped by Bowe in the last fight when Moorer beat him. The thing is Moorer beat Holyfield and Foreman beat Moorer.

    You thought he'd beat Holyfield? You'd be one of few on earth.

    So what other heavyweights won the lineal title at 45? Or even put forth such a big win? Foreman not only beat the record for previous oldest, he actually shattered it.

    You can talk title holders forever but the fact is there have been loads and loads of weaker era's and champions yet no-one remotely near Foreman's age could get to the title.
     
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  13. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don’t think you’re giving Foreman enough credit for his ability. Foreman even in his early to mid 40’s was still strong enough to knock anybody senseless if he landed clean. Also, Foreman in his later years was very patient and would catch you slipping if you let your guard down.

    The only reason Holyfield didn’t get destroyed by Foreman is after getting rocked Holyfield wisely changed tactics and focused on outpointing Foreman just like Morrison did. Moorer on the other hand isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed and insisted on proving he could stand toe to toe with Foreman and found out the hard way he was wrong. Larry Holmes himself, who hates Foreman admitted taking Foreman head on was suicide and that you had to outbox him.
     
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  14. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I didn't mean the last fight, I meant the last of the 3 fights Bowe and Holyfield had. Moorer beat Holyfield sure, but he was also stopped by him.. Evander didn't have much power. . That really didn't mean much to me that win either one. Moorer as a heavyweight didn't mean much to me. A tricky to fight sharp southpaw perhaps? What more?.

    Moorer was a good fighter and his style was good for Evander either way I guess, but that is no claim to greatness or even a decent champion. Cooper was one good punch away from beating Evander in 1991 and Moorer for that matter. Yes I thought George would beat Evander just on the way he was mowing down lesser guys. On that I admit, I picked George. George demolished Bert Cooper or rather overpowered him and made him quit.

    I just don't know if beating Moorer at even 55 means too much. A big punch and a weak chin. He beat a guy who had a weak chin and Foreman had a monster punch a we know. I think I actually picked Foreman to beat Moorer, but I forget that one. I might have figured he lost the other two I thought he would win, so maybe I didn't pick it. I don't remember too much.

    Foreman at the time in 1994 was a big heavyweight and he had power. A guy 45 with that power and size could do some damage to a rather weak division, especially how it was in 1991 before Bowe and Lennox came around.. I should add. The Moorer fight was later, but Moorer was a weaker champ.. In 1994 would Foreman have fought Bowe or Lennox. Of course not..
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Technically he was the legitimate champion. But Not once he started defending it against unrated guys. No. And he certainly did not represent the best heavyweight in the world because that would have been between McCall, Lewis or Bowe at that point.

    If George had to fight a contender to earn that shot at Moorer he would have lost. He lost his last fight before getting a gift shot at Moorer.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019