GGG vs Canelo scoring (Everyone Else is doing it...)

Like I said round 11 needs further examination. Watching it again, the first minute was pretty even. Though I thought Canelo landed several hard jabs. GGG's series of one-twos in the middle of the round were great, that definitely put GGG ahead in the round at the mid-way point but then you watch the last half of the round and Canelo got in some great shots to make the round very difficult to score. You really need to pay attention to what Canelo landed in the 2nd half of the round and many of the punches are hard to see due to the camera angles.

Lets examine what Canelo landed in the 2nd half of the round. Here's a pretty detailed punch summary of what happened in the 2nd half of round 11.

With 1:29 on the clock, a right hook from Canelo lands followed by what looked like a hard left hand body shot by Canelo.

GGG throws a left hook with 1:20 left, Canelo appeared to partly block it but it may have hit Canelo on the side / back of the head, it was a looping shot by GGG. But then a second later with 1:19 left in the round, Canelo landed a right hook that caught GGG right on the top of the head as he was trying to slip it. Not the hardest punch but it did land. (GGG fans will probably argue GGG slipped it but it landed) GGG backs away and throws a jab looked to be blocked by Canelo. (not a hard jab)

While walking GGG down, Canelo gets in a short left hook with 1:14 on the clock, the misses with a right hand a second later as GGG avoided it. Canelo gets in a hard jab with 1:10 on the clock that hits GGG right on the forehead. Canelo proceeds to walk GGG down.

GGG throws a jab - uppercut two punch combo with 1:07 on the clock. The jab may have gotten through but both punches were partly blocked by Canelo. Canelo responds with a good right uppercut that hits GGG right in the face and GGG backs away, then Canelo follows that up with a straight right hand as GGG is backing away. GGG tried to avoid it, but it landed.

GGG did throw a lot of jabs this round and some landed but many of those jabs were very light punches. Canelo's jabs that he landed this round on the other hand were much harder.

With 1:02 left, there was a nice right hook to the side of the face by Canelo as part of a one - two, the first was a left hook to the body that hit GGG on the arm. After the right hook Then Canelo missed wildly with a right hook as GGG backed away but Canelo still won that exchange.

GGG throws a right hand with 1:00 left in the round that Canelo appeared to block. (hard to see from the camera angle - we didn't have the best camera angles in this round, for a lot of these punches our view was partly blocked but I'm doing my best to try to determine what was blocked and what landed - if you see any of these moments differently please feel free to bring it to my attention) Canelo definitely blocked the jab with 57 seconds left. GGG feints a right hand then throws a right hand that was skillfully parried by Canelo with 53 seconds left. GGG misses with a straight left hand. Then both men land a jab at the same time and both step back from the impact of it which was a cool moment. Canelo blocks another light jab from GGG with 48 seconds left.

GGG throws two quick jabs both appeared to be blocked by Canelo followed by a right hook that misses wildly from GGG as Canelo ducked.

With 42 seconds left, GGG misses with a jab then canelo appears to block a right uppercut by GGG (hard to see from the angle but Canelo looks like he was in good blocking position to absorb that punch and you heard the sound of gloves hitting gloves) then Canelo follows that up with a sharp right hook with 40 seconds left that hits GGG right across the face. Beautiful punch there from Canelo, GGG felt that and backed away.

GGG starts backing away and Canelo follows him, Canelo gets in a jab with 37 seconds left. GGG counters with a looping left hook with not much on it, it may have connected on the back of Canelo's head. GGG responds by getting in a hard jab with 35 seconds left.

GGG then misses with a right hand and Canelo quickly counters with a hard right uppercut. (again hard to tell how clean Canelo's right uppercut landed due to the camera angle but it certainly moved GGG and forced GGG to clinch)

GGG works out of the clinch that he initiated, and continues to back away, GGG throws a jab with 28 seconds left that was off target and partly blocked by Canelo.

GGG slips a jab by Canelo and GGG counters with right uppercut that was blocked by Canelo with 25 seconds left, GGG followed that up with a left hook which was thrown right when Canelo was throwing a hard right uppercut. Both punches landed at the same time, and the GGG left hook connected and moved Canelo but you may have missed how cleanly the Canelo uppercut landed due to the camera angle. GGG was clearly affected by that punch has he gasps for air and takes a deep breath after receiving that shot. This sequence with 25 seconds left was both men landing clean shots but Canelo's appeared to be harder even though Canelo was put off balance momentarily from the left hook as he was landing the uppercut.

Both men throw a jab at the same time with 22 seconds left. Canelo blocks a GGG jab with 20 seconds left, GGG throws another jab this one appears to land. A third GGG is just short of the target, and as Canelo dips down to slip a right hand from GGG with 19 seconds left, Canelo landed a nice uppercut "heart punch" which was outstanding. GGG felt that and immediately retreated. GGG responds though with a good jab with 17 seconds left as he's fighting off the backfoot. They clinch momentarily then GGG pushes Canelo off, and as that happens Canelo lands a great right hand that hits GGG across the face with 15 seconds left as GGG misses with a left hand.

12 seconds left in the round, Canelo lands a hard one-two, the left hand got around GGG"s glove and landed on the jaw and the right hand landed hard hitting GGG right in the forehead. This caused GGG to retreat and Canelo continued to walk him down throwing two more jabs, then in the final 5 seconds Canelo got in another good right hand right across the face as he avoided a GGG counter right hand, then appeared to slip a GGG jab as he was backing away (maybe it grazed Canelo as he was backing away) and Canelo ended the round with a grazing jab to end the round while appearing to slip punches from GGG. You can't finish a round much better than Canelo did in the final 20 seconds.

As you can see Canelo landed significantly more clean impactful power punches down the stretch of this round. And he landed enough clean punches to offset what GGG did with about 1:45 left in the round. (and again I think the first minute or so was pretty even though I thought Canelo's jabs were harder)

If you look at all those clean punches I highlighted over the 2nd half of the round, I am very confident in scoring the 11th to Canelo despite what GGG did with those series of one-twos near the middle of the round.

 

One exchange I forgot to include in the punch summary was with 1:27 on the clock, GGG got in a good jab through the guard. Then Canelo responded with what looked to be a feint of a right hand that GGG flinched on protecting his body, then Canelo appears to get in a left hook to the head followed by a right uppercut. Then Canelo follows that up with a hard right hand with 1:24 left an excellent punch there.

We can't ignore that sequence, which featured another series of clean well timed power punches by Canelo.

 

Ok I'll bite, I watched the round again at half the speed. first Minute: Canelo: 3 jabs and maybe one body shot, nothing else, GGG 6 Jabs 3 powershots

second minute: canelo 1 Jab 3 powershots (maybe an uppercut while GGG blocked my vision, but it didn't move him) GGG: 7 Jabs 4 clear powershots (plus some grazing shots)

third minute: Canelo 0 Jabs 4 powershots. GGG: 4 Jabs 2 clear powershots.

Overall: Canelo 4 Jabs 7 or 8 powershots
GGG: 17 Jabs 9 powershots

Canelo literally did nothing in the first minute. If I count shots like the grazing one you gave Canelo I can add a couple to GGG as well.

this is not a Canelo round and I was critical to GGG

 

I just rewatched the first minute at about about half speed at a high frame rate and put together a preliminary summary of the first minute while counting Canelo's jabs landed to compare with what you said which were 3.

2:52 Canelo lands a jab to the chin right after GGG lands a jab. GGG follows up by missing an overhand right. (Hard to tell if it grazed Canelo but it appears to miss short)

2:50 GGG misses a one - two combo attempt. Canelo slips the jab and blocks GGG's overhand right.

2:49 GGG lands a jab

2:48 GGG throws a right hand uppercut it may have been blocked, Canelo responds with an uppercut that looked to be blocked as well.

2:46 Canelo throws a lunging left hook. It was blocked well by GGG but still had enough impact threw the glove to move GGG which was absorbed in GGG's neck. You can call that a block by GGG but half the glove appears to land on GGG's shoulder so that could be considered a grazing punch by Canelo.

2:43 GGG blocks a jab by Canelo, Canelo follows that up with a right hand over the top it may have hit the shoulder or been short. Could be considered another "grazing" shot like you claim there were grazing shots for GGG.

2:42 Canelo jab "grazes" GGG"s back as he ducks it. A "grazing" Canelo jab.

Canelo holds on to GGG they clinch the ref breaks.

2:33 GGG short with a jab

2:31 Canelo blocks a jab by GGG

2:29 Canelo jab left lands right on the chin.

GGG nice jab to the body 2:23 on the clock

Both men land jabs at about the same time at 2:12 with Canelo on the ropes. Canelo lands a jab to the chin then receives a jab to the face.

(Neither man appeared to land anything else clean while Canelo was on the ropes)

Both men appear to trade jabs at 2:04 on the clock (partly blocked). Canelo blocked GGG's first jab and counters with a jab of his own then GGG countered and landed a jab of his own. (So in that exchanged GGG threw 2 jabs, one was definitely blocked the 2nd appeared to land, Canelo threw 1 jab and it appeared to land)

Then Canelo lands another jab with 2:01 on the clock.

By my count Canelo landed 5 clean hard jabs (not counting the grazing ones) in the first minute : timestamps 2:52, 2:29, 2:12, 2:04, 2:01.

You said Canelo only landed 3 jabs in the first minute.

In the first minute I don't think landed anything clean besides jabs but those 5 jabs were good especially the last 4 which were hard and emphatic, much better and harder than GGG's jabs in the first minute. Please confirm those time stamps.

I know GGG started the round with a couple of good punches

 

2:52 watch this:

This content is protected

nothing landed
2:29 barely (if at all) touches GGG while he pulled backwards. In the second Video I just posted you can see how GGG counters that shot with a nice right hand.

2:12 both connect a jab at roughly the same time

2:04 GGG is tilting backwards, nothing landed there. ALthough checking the other video there might be a little impact. GGG misses the first and lands the second.

2:01 definately a miss by canelo (GGG pulls back.)

I still have 3 Jabs for canelo and the first one barely touches GGG and got countered perfectly. so that's not effective at all.

I gotta sleep now, different time zone

 

Just to go a little further so I can complete the whole round :

1:57 Canelo slips a jab from GGG, Canelo counters with a left hook that lands right under GGG's ear clean.

GGG takes two deep breaths and resets.

1:53 Canelo slips a jab (it may have grazed Canelo's hair) and counters with a left hook that lands right across GGG's chin. (GGG is throwing a right hand that's short and appears to hit Canelo's elbow)

They clinch, referee breaks.

This is where GGG has his best moments :

1:45 jab lands as part of a great one - two right hand gets around Canelo's glove lands hard.

Canelo responds with a right upper at 1:44 then misses a right hand wildly.

1:43 GGG lands a jabs, then misses a jab then barely lands a right hand (not much impact).

1:42 Canelo throws a right hand, sort of lands, but GGG counters and tags Canelo with a hard left hand to the jaw.

1:41 GGG lands another straight right hand as they were spinning out

1:40 Canelo lands a straight right hand, causes GGG to miss with a jab counter

1:39 GGG lands a jab to the chin, followed by a nice right hand to the head (1:38)

1:37 GGG throws 3 jabs, only the 2nd landed with impact, the 3rd appeared to be blocked

1:35 GGG's completes his combo with a light right hand, partly blocked by Canelo

1:35 GGG left hook partly blocked by Canelo, partly landed (sort of like Canelo's lunging left at the beginning of the round)

1:33 GGG right uppercut looked to be blocked

1:32 light GGG jab partly landed partly slipped

1:30 Canelo parries a GGG jab

 

It may have landed, though it's hard to tell because Gennady's back is facing the camera. It's not really clear if it landed from the video.

Well played, GGG did counter that well and landed a nice right hand after that. GGG after that missed two jabs and Canelo countered with a right hand of his own that sort of deflected off of GGG's left shoulder as he avoided it.

As to the jab itself, Canelo's at 2:29 on the clock, GGG did pull back and it may have only grazed his chin, but it definitely landed on the chest / sternum area as he settled so it's a hit.

Note : The body shot I credited GGG with at 2:23 it's hard to see if it actually landed. So I can make the same argument there about GGG's jab (that Canelo was moving away from it and it only grazed him) as you made for Canelo's jab at 2:29. (though it was one of the rare moments where GGG actually landed a body shot so I noted that)

In essence I think you'd agree that both Canelo's jab at 2:29 and GGG's jab to the body at 2:23 both were hits but I think we can also agree that they probably only were grazing as both fighters were moving away from the punch as it landed.

Yes, I failed to note that Canelo blocked / slipped several punches in a row from GGG before those.

Yes, Canelo blocked the first jab, Canelo counters with a jab and GGG counters that with a jab. In that sequence GGG landed 1 of 2 jab attempts Canelo landed 1 of 1 jab attempt.

No sorry, watch it again. And make sure the sound is on preferably if you can still hear the sound while watching in slow motion. That jab from Canelo definitely lands as GGG is pulling back you can hear the sound of the glove hitting his face. GGG was pulling back but it definitely landed impactfully, GGG wasn't fast enough to avoid it.

I agree that the one at 2:52 is hard to tell, but the other 4 definitely landed. So Canelo landed 4 or 5 jabs in the first minute of round 11.

 

8-4 here for GGG, but I did consider giving one round to Canelo making it 7-5. A lot of swing rounds, but Canelo's the one who benefited from the swing rounds in this case as you can't find 7 clear rounds for him. Whereas with GGG, there's more of an argument.

 

Which round was that?

 

Don't remember exactly but it was one of the mid rounds, basically what happened was that my instinct (it was a swing round) was to give it to GGG but there were a lot of Canelo fanboys posting in the RBR thread and I kept seeing crazy scorecards like 5-0, 6-0, 7-0 Canelo. And I have a scoring app on my phone. I was thinking, okay, I must be doing something wrong here or I'm not seeing something other people are seeing. So I scored it to Canelo initially. But then I was like F that, I should just score it the way I see it so I changed it back.

 

lol well I had GGG winning 1, 4, and 8. 5, 6, and 7 though were all very close but I thought Canelo managed to win those rounds. Those rounds are definitely debatable though especially round 5 which many had even or close.

Rounds 8 and 9 are both toss-ups in my opinion, I thought 5, 6, 7 while close were easier to score than 8 and 9.

 

You only had Canelo landing 4 jabs in the round, the same as compubox, however I counted a lot more than that and can give you timestamps that can be confirmed.

Aside from the 4 or 5 jabs landed in the first minute. (2:52, 2:29, 2:12, 2:04, 2:01) *granted the one with 2:52 is hard to tell if it landed

Here's the jabs I counted Canelo landing for the remainder of the round :

1:10 Canelo jab lands right on GGG's forehead +1

0:52 Both fighters land impactful jabs at the same time. +1

0:37 Canelo jab hits the left side of GGG's face with impact. +1

0:07 Canelo throws two jabs, the first one was partly blocked / partly landed, but the 2nd one (0:06) definitely landed between / above the gloves on the top of GGG's forehead as he was hunched over. +1 or +2, the first one seemed to landed pretty clean even though it might have been partly blocked by GGG on its way to the target.

I won't count both the jab at 2:52 and the first of two jabs at 0:07, I'll count both of those as 1 total.

So then you got by my count 8 clear landed jabs by Canelo in the 11th (at 2:29, 2:12, 2:04, 2:01, 1:10, 0:52, 0:37, 0:06) plus the two at 2:52 and 0:07 which were hard to see clearly if you average those two out to 1 you have about 9 landed jabs for Canelo. Canelo was only credited by compubox though for landing 4 out of 14 jabs so you're right that compubox was wrong (though not in the way you think it's wrong lol) but in fairness it's hard to see that all of these landed in real-time.

You also had the left hand at 0:12 which I didn't count as a jab because it looked more like a hook. It was the start of a one - two that ended with a good straight right hand, a combo that's usually started with a jab. But this one looked more like a hook so I didn't count it as a jab but had the effect of a jab in setting up the right hand.

It will be interesting to count up GGG's punches this round as well as Canelo's power punches to compare them with your #s and compubox's #s.

 

I tried to find a different angle on the 2:01 jab but couldn't find one. The sound could be anything (upper part of GGGs left hand was in the way of the punch), I just can't see the fist connect and I can't judge when there's no clear evidence. I do the same for GGG, if I can't confirm it, I don't count it.

I'm not gonna check all of your time stamps like that, cuz I don't have the time to do so. But the first minute was almost exclusively for GGG. Even the times Canelo (barely) landed GGG countered better or equally. Adding to that the shots he landed unanswered by Canelo.

It would be so easy to analyse a fight like that for the comission, they have all the angles in great quality. I'd like to have every seemingly close fight judged as a draw on the night until further review. Then present the analyses to the public with all gathered evidence. Of course that won't be possible for every undercard fight, but for the big ones no problem, they have allthe material they need.

 

Interesting how scoring this fight has become a hypothetical, intellectual exercise; by virtue of the fact GGG couldn't (as in prohibited) win a wide or close decision in either fight. It's not that he didn't--he literally couldn't, whatever he did. So it's become a fun thought experiment to score it while pretending we live in an alternate reality in which the Nevada T-Mobile judges could award a decision against GB's pride of the fleet cash cow. Become a consoling, sort of... 'what if it wasn't corrupt?'... type thing. I can float between 9-3/8-4 GG fight 1 and 8-4/7-5 GGG fight 2