GGG vs James Toney at 160.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Sep 19, 2020.


Who wins?

  1. Toney by decision.

  2. Toney by stoppage.

  3. Ladies and gentieman we have a draw!!!

  4. GGG by decision.

  5. GGG by stoppage.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    32,297
    23,715
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 21, 2012
    :lol:

    Opinion.
     
    Loudon likes this.
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    I have said Yes or deal manny times. On this one, sure. We have a deal. Now please answer the questions I have for you.
     
  3. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    32,297
    23,715
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 21, 2012
    After 61 pages of this NOW it comes to an end? Tsk. for shame I thought you were going for a round 100.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    Sorry to disappoint you, Loudon pulled a sudden NO MAS. Perhaps a smart play as if he did reply to my questions it would have been an epic knockout. He knows it. I know it. And best of all he knows that I know it. NO MAS.
     
    BCS8 likes this.
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    34,476
    4,305
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    Has it not occurred to you that I might have been joking.

    Having a deal based on someone’s shorts?

    Ha!

    I’ve been busy at work.

    I’ll answer them soon.

    Whilst I answer them, can you please tell me why you rate Danny Jacobs higher than Mike McCallum.

    Thanks.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    18,310
    24,282
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Mar 3, 2019
    Hmmm
     
  7. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

    3,731
    1,904
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 2, 2006
    lol

    Haven't read past the first 10 pages

    I wonder if this thread can go on longer than the Vitali vs Holyfield thread

    I am crying from laughter here, 61 pages lol. I wonder if i will ever manage to create a thread with so many pages. I am envious JT.
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    35,868
    12,637
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 27, 2005
    :lol:

    Good time to add what is very close to the final tally, surely.

    67 votes for Toney to 17 for GGG with 7 on the fence.
     
    dmt likes this.
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007

    I think it's near the end. Loudon was supposed to answer my questions on several fights in Toney's career. He said he would get a few times, but pulled a NO MAS, realizing I was correct.

    Whenever a thread is this long, you're bound to learn something. For me it Toney's fans have more excuses for him than Hall of fame boxer I've come across. That and he wasn't that hard to our box, won a few matches via SD vs lesser opposition upon second glance, and had some questionable judging for him along the way.
     
    BCS8 likes this.
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    53,529
    8,749
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007

    No, you're a debate coward. A person who wasn't satisfied with any answer until you saw it 5 times, and a runner. Asking me more questions that are never ending is your way of running.

    You owe answers to several questions and since it's Sunday, I doubt you are working now. By ducking after saying you'll get to them several times without doing so you come across as a liar.

    The questions once again are:

    Please answer yes or no without any spin, tangent, or attempt to undermine the question. Surely you can do this. This should be easy.

    Question #1. Do you think GGG is a hall of fame bound fighter? Yes or No? Not only do I think he is. I also think he'll earn the first-ballot distinction as possibly the top vote-getter in his class.


    Question #2 I think both Toney and GGG are top 25 all-time middleweights. Do you agree, Yes or no?


    Question #3 Do you think Nunn or McCallum are top 25 all-time middleweights? Now be honest, and if the answer is yes for either, Produce a top 25 list to be examined. To help you case you need names for the list, you can use the IBRO at Poll, which voted on their top 20 middleweights with some honorable mention. I was a former member. Most current members shun the web forums by the way. A few do post here. Since the IBRO rarely votes on active fighters, GGG's name is not mentioned, but Toney, who retied did make the honorable mention coming in 25th place overall. Personally, I think Ketchel has no business being where he is, and Toney would beat some rated ahead of him. You may also use Rumsfled's top 15 poll at ESB.

    2https://
    This content is protected



    Question #4 Do you think Golovkin would beat the 24-11-0 Sanderline Williams? Williams entered having lost three consecutive bouts on points and with a record of 2-7 in his previous nine. Assume this is GGG's 22nd pro fight, same as Toney. Toney drew with Williams. Call KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss here for GGG.


    Quesiton #5. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision vs. Sosa who was then an 18-0 greenish fighter and finished a 39-4-2 KO'd 4 times? Yes or no. Call Ko, UD, SD, Draw, or loss for Golovkin.


    Question #6. Do you think GGG would have to settle for a split decision, being knocked down in the process vs. a Ring Magazine top ten rated Reggie Johnson, or would Golovkin do better in your opinion? Call KO, UD, SD, Draw or loss for Golovkin


    Question #7 Do you think Golovkin would have to settle for a draw in his prime vs. a 35-year-old Mike McCallum? What's your call here, win, draw or loss. Keep in mind McCallum after this fight, never beat anyone good at middle or super middle and lost 3 more times. McCallum also said he was past his prime at this point, which video would attest to in from his fights years ago. Your call for Golovkin here is KO, UD, SD, Draw, or loss


    Question #8. Do you think GGG in his prime with 7 weeks to prepare for Dave Tiberi, who also the same amount of time to prepare as would defeat Tiberi? Call KO, UD, Draw or loss, please. We both agree Toney should have lost this fight.


    Question #9. How would GGG do vs Roy Jones? Better than Toney or worse?. Would he be floored as Toney was? Your answer to this question is?

    The score cards on Jones vs Toney were:
    Judge: John Stewart 119-108 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Glen Hamada 117-110 in favor of Jones
    Judge: Jerry Roth 118-109 in favor of Jones
    Unofficial AP scorecard: 119-107 Jones
    Essentially three cards say Jones up by 9 points, Jones uo by 9 points, and Jones up by 11 points.

    I think I'll stop here, I look forward to reading your replies.

    -M
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 4:39 AM
    BCS8 likes this.
  11. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,302
    3,556
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 9, 2010
    If you want a bumper thread, just give it a few months and then follow these easy guidelines...

    1. Start a thread involving either GGG or VK vs [insert fantasy match-up opponent here].
    2. For best results, ensure the fantasy match-up opponent is either:
    - highly regarded, historically (divisional Top 40)
    - close to being regarded as a divisional ATG. (Top 20)
    - a bona fide divisional or pound-for-pound ATG (PREFERABLE).
    3. Ensure the fantasy match-up opponent has great victories on their record, which are:
    - accepted as such, by wide consensus.
    - available on film.
    4. Make sure the fantasy match-up opponent also has two or more poor results on their record.

    Within a few pages or less, the thread will stop being a discussion about a likely head-to-head result but, instead, descend into a futile argument over respective ledgers, with a focus on the fantasy match-up opponent's poor results.

    Any great victories will either be ignored or critiqued beyond reason and, from that point on, an attempt will be made to revise history and use statistics without context.

    The circular effect of this line of argument stands to earn 20+ extra, pointless pages, alone.

    It will also yield some 'for the archives' responses, e.g.

    "I'll take the guys GGG beat over the guys Toney beat at 160."
    "I'd pick Peter and [a 2010 version of Shannon] Briggs over [Berbick, Thomas, Tucker, Holmes and Spinks]"


    Tips for extra page-building...
    - It helps if the fantasy match-up opponent has multiple losses, when they were way past prime.
    - Challenge the legitimacy of Golovkin's number of defenses (regular vs super WBA).
    - Challenge the legitimacy of V. Klitschko's defense against Shannon Briggs.
    - Totally avoid answering a bunch of irrelevant, loaded questions regarding either GGG or VK.
    (Note: this tactic is good for dozens of additional, useless posts, with the potential for many more.)

    Good Luck :lol:
     
    Loudon, McGrain and BlackCloud like this.
  12. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    32,297
    23,715
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 21, 2012
    For me it is how wildly overrated Toney has become particularly in his 160 career.
     
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    34,476
    4,305
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    Either change your attitude, or I won’t answer them on principle.

    I said all along that I will answer any of your questions.

    When I suddenly said I wouldn’t, it was just a joke.

    When I said I’d only answer them if you agreed that McCallum had the better shorts, I thought that that was an OBVIOUS JOKE.

    If you didn’t realise that I was joking there, you’ve got some serious issues which need addressing.

    I don’t dodge questions from anybody.

    Regarding it being a Sunday, you know nothing about my life.

    I will gladly answer all your questions when I next have the time. But not if you’re going to insult me. So if you want your replies, be a good boy and show some manners.
     
    dinovelvet likes this.
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    34,476
    4,305
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    Who has wildly overrated him though?

    Toney had flaws.

    He could be beaten.

    GG could have beaten him.

    People have only picked him as a favourite because he was more proven.

    This is a fantasy match up, looking at both fighters being at their best, where they’d have fought to their full capabilities.

    If you knew anything about Toney’s career, you’d know that he wasn’t at his best against Williams and Tiberi. So you’re looking at the versions who fought McCallum or Nunn, vs any version of GG up to the Wade/Brook fight.

    We know that GG would have beaten Williams and Tiberi at his best. But anybody who has chosen Toney at his best hasn’t shown any bias.

    Prime for prime, Toney beat the better fighters.

    Sure, GG dominated more. But he fought lesser opposition with a lighter schedule.

    That’s how simple it is.

    GG might have beaten Canelo and Jacobs much easier pre 2015, plus everybody who Toney fought. But as he didn’t do that, it will always be open to speculation.

    The smart pick would have been Toney.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020 at 10:24 AM
    Man_Machine, dinovelvet and Noel857 like this.
  15. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    32,297
    23,715
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 21, 2012
    I didn't really read this post.

    Such a long post, and yet you claimed you never had time to address this :

    This content is protected


    I suggest you hop to it.