GGG vs James Toney at 160.

@Mendoza thinks this is the best GGG

 

BCS8,


Okay. Look, we both know that me and you could go back and forth for pages on end where we argue and insult each other like a couple of kids in a playground. And it just gets boring. So if you want to, we can try and be civil to each other without the insults. We can try and have an actual debate. The offer is there and it’s genuine. So I’ll leave it up to you.

You say this, yet I have admitted that Tiberi was robbed and that GG could have beaten Toney etc. I’m not a fanboy at all. And if you’re familiar with my posts from the past, you’ll know that I have literally spent hours on here defending GG from his haters. You can even ask members like Dino. Me and him disagree on the situation with Ward. I’m not a fanboy. Toney wasn’t perfect. The only thing I don’t like is when GG is automatically rated above him, just on statistics which don’t allow for context. If someone gives me a breakdown, I’ll honestly respect it even if I don’t agree with it. That’s the truth. But any claim that Toney would get crushed solely based on the Tiberi and Williams fights etc, is just ignorant casual fan logic. It can’t be taken seriously.

Of course we’d be having the conversation. He’d still have beaten Nunn and McCallum. He’d still have beaten even better fighters at higher weights, whilst displaying the same skills.

Let’s take GG out of the equation for a second then.

Go and analyse the careers of Macklin, Murray, Monroe, Lemieux and Geale etc.

Look at who they fought both before and after. Then look at who their opponents fought etc, and what their results were.

These fighters are decent and no more.

They’re what most fans would refer to as B class guys.

None of them would ever have been classed as elite level fighters by anybody.

Again, just pull their records and see what they’ve done.

I’m not sure who’s creaming their pants over Watson. But Watson stopped Benn, just prior to Benn going to the U.S. and beating Barkley and De Witt etc. He then gave McCallum a good fight before Mike broke him down. He then gave a prime version of Eubank absolute hell at SMW, where he was well on his way to winning until that final shot. Eubank says himself that he couldn’t win that fight as he was too good. He just unleashed that hellacious uppercut that swung the fight. And then as we know, that awful tragedy cut his career short. And that means that his resume isn’t strong. But in terms of ability, I would say that he was as good as Murray and better than most of GG’s other opponents. Can you really envisage Murray beating any version of Benn or coming close to beating Eubank at his best? I love Murray. I’ve followed him a while. But I don’t see it at all. BTW, I’m really looking forward to the BJS fight that’s just been announced.

It was a genuine question.

I’ve watched GG’s entire career unfold. But if I look at Rubio, Geale and Murray etc, I honestly can’t find any opponent who they fought who was as good as Kalambay, Nunn and McCallum etc.

If you can, then please tell me who you think they were.

Okay. But Collins, Watson and Toney were bigger, younger and harder hitting. And what about a peak Roy Jones?

Jacobs did have those attributes. But again, who has he beaten on Mike’s level? Again, his best wins have been against Quillin, Mora and Chavez. He has done nothing in order for anyone to have made a prediction of him crushing a guy who’d beaten Watson, Kalambay, Collins and in your opinion, Toney. I don’t think many people would even have favoured him to have won at all, let alone have crushed him. McCallum may have been past his prime, but we saw in the fight with Toney what he had left. Now analyse Jacobs’ skills and compare him to McCallum. McCallum was an old school technician.

I’ve never done that. I won’t even comment on a fantasy fight thread if I don’t know both fighters in question.

That’s right. But we know that didn’t happen with McCallum. You think that he beat Toney. And then he fought him again and then went on to win a title up at LHW. So the version of McCallum who Toney fought was the same version who’d recently beaten Watson etc. He aged well like Hopkins and Floyd. He was a technician who hadn’t suffered any wars or huge amounts of wear and tear.

Okay. But then don’t tell me that GG would have beaten Mike on the grounds that Mike lost fights at other weights.

Canelo wasn’t as technical as Kalambay, and GG struggled with him.

Jacobs has never shown himself to be above the best MW versions of Toney. If you don’t agree, then tell me what he did to prove it. Who were the opponents? What skills did he display?

I asked you who GG fought who resembled Graham. Derevyanchenko is nothing like Graham. Graham was a big, unorthodox southpaw with a huge reach and great speed.

Okay.

On both points?

Who did GG fight in his prime who was as good as Nunn or McCallum?

Even Mendoza agrees that he never fought an opponent as good as those 2 in his prime.

You don’t agree that he struggled with Canelo, Jacobs and Dereveyanchenko?

Everyone else believes that he did.

Tell me and we can discuss it.

Thanks.

 

I just don’t understand why they can’t give Toney credit for the win.

It wasn’t a lucky punch or anything.

 

All he’s going to do is post the Tiberi fight.

 

Right, Toney was coming on strongly, in the rounds preceding the KO.

 

Nah, the time for that has passed.

And it will all end in tears anyway.

The reason why is simple: we fundamentally differ in opinion on the strength of the respective eras. You obviously see the current era as weak and Toney's era as strong. I see them much closer in strength than you do. So when we compare two boxers with similar styles like Watson and Murray, we are seeing different things. To me it's obvious that Murray is bigger, stronger and more active. Watson might have a better chin, idk, he looks like iron. I look at Murray's career and its obvious to me that he's been fighting at a much higher level in general and has been rather unlucky. But it's not obvious to you because you don't rate this era.

Furthermore the era isn't ended yet. It could be that guys like Canelo, Jacobs and Derevyanchenko get blown away by the next big thing and then Golovkin looks worse. Or it could be that they still achieve good wins and then he looks better.

I thank you for the civil tone and I'd rather end my participation in this thread on this positive note instead of taking a detour into a place where it will turn ugly again.

Take care.

 

GGG never beat Canelo! If you think differently, it is only your OPINION.

- Jacobs is a B plus level fighter.
- Derevyanchenko is a no name. He never beat anybody in the pros for christ sake!!!!! Who did he beat, please tell me????
- Murray never beat anybody of note!! What is his best win then ???

 

Chris Eubank Jr would beat Martin Murray.. Journeyman Gabe Rosado beat Murrary ffs , not to mention an old Martinez who only had one arm and one leg.

 

If Eubanks Jr was as useless as Martin Murray , he would have lost to James DeGeale.

 

No I do not. Lying again, Dino?

 

Loudon says he's about manners. I'm not so sure.

 

Dino can be unintentionally funny.

1. GGG won all of these fights.

2. He was past his prime by Jacobs, and still won it, even by or standards!

3. Unlike Toney he was never multiple rounds behind on a score card.

Perhaps its time I start focusing on Toney fights, past his prime? If that all you've got, Dino?

 

BCS8,

It’s never too late, and we’ll see each other on other threads.

I don’t necessarily see it as weak. But yes, the early 90’s era contained a larger group of more talented fighters. Especially 1990-1993. Although many fights were missed. But I believe that Canelo is special, as well as GG. And I think that Jacobs is very talented too. I think they’d have been good in the 90’s.

The main issue, is that Danny Jacobs hasn’t done anything for you to think he’d have crushed a guy who was literally never crushed in his entire career.

The other issue, is that guys like Rubio, Geale, Lemieux, Macklin and Murray etc, weren’t as good as a guy like McCallum. They don’t possess his skill set or have a resume anywhere near as strong.

They’re good fighters. Those guys are clearly on another level to GG’s prime opponents.

Okay.

Well I really appreciate this.

I apologise for my behaviour.

You angered me with your logic and criteria. But it’s all good, we’ll move past it.

 

Mendoza,

Are you going to respond to my posts?

Do you have any more questions?

 

1.He did not win against Canelo.Please check Boxrec.
2.Jacobs a B level fighter
3. Worse, he lost. Toney was never beaten!

Perhaps, it is time focusing that Toney went on to have a great career after 160.GGG never fight outside 160