[GIF] Max Baer showing skill and reflexes with a triple jab, followed by a sharp combo, and a slip

Yeah he's kind of like Magnus Carlsen
A lot of hustle to him, but it is built on instinct and tactical aggression
I too am not a blind fanboy to him
But where he is strong, he really is quite strong

Could he face up against a big talented guy?
Hmm
He'd give it a go
Thats all you can ask
In good matchups I'd never assume an outright winner
But I'd assume a good match either way

 

Following this analogy, I guess Baer is like Tal or Morphy. I think positional aggressive like Alekhine wouldn't be a good comparison and a Capablanca comparison would be even worse.

 

Morphy's a fair analogy (if we're really going to compare Max Baer to world-class chess players...) But I think that until the past few decades, the vast majority of the top heavyweights in history fought more like Romantic era attackers than accurate positional players and technicians.

 

Exactly, I agree.

 

The elephant in the room factor not being discussed is the opposition upon which Max exercised his supposed skills and physical talents. That is where the discussion veers from a celebration to a more sober estimation.

 

I think that is the main criticism of the past few decades really
No Vilhelm Steinitz
So everyone just played with traps and unsound lines rather than observing the pawn chain and how to play the position
xD
Haha, I bet a whole lot of posters have no idea what we are talking about

A capablanca would be good, his rule of two purposes to each attack is a good one for boxing
Don't just jab to land the jab, but set up a straight, block vision and change angle

Or the rule of the threat of an attack is more powerful than an attack itself,
Hit to the body until a simple fake drops the guard and lets you deliver up top

 

I wouldn’t pick any man in history who weighs less than 190lb to defeat Marciano at his best in a boxing ring. Do you agree?

 

I'd pick the best possible 190-lb version of Holyfield. There are other guys who I could see pulling it off too but I don't know that I'd favor them.

 

Generalizing here but I actually think that the more recent heavyweights are more like technicians (in the chess sense) who prefer closed positions with fewer attacks and more controlled, less risky overall play and fewer complications. I think these are actually the main problem that a lot of classic boxing fans have with them--they can seem boring and their styles are less improvisational or daring. Less emphasis on exciting attacks, more attention to not overextending themselves and avoiding counter-attacks (by controlling distance and clinching instead of engaging in slugfests). A lot of classic fans confuse this change in style with a decrease in actual skills and abilities, imo.

 

Yeah, it is hard to pinpoint with any exactness though
I don't have a 100% answer on this subject
I think you are right to a certain degree, but there is probably more to it

Ok so... I know a guy who is like a clone or reincarnation of Sugar Ray Leonard
He doesn't box, but he is one TALENTED guy, and one hell of a personality
And in talking with him I'm always thinking about what it is that made those guys so great
And I've thought about why that is missing today

My opinion on it is that guys like him DO exist
So for example, Oscar De la Hoya was so similar in my opinion to JACK DEMPSEY
Macgregor is like Baer (though not a boxer he did box)
Mayweather is like Pep

But there is less of a focused consensus behind the fighters that highlights them like in the past
Each fighter relies on their own self promotion and a marketting machine, and that creates a lot more scepticism
Furthermore, the guy doesn't just go out there gunslinging, he goes out there with a plan and a package
And as a result you often get a pre-moulded outcome that reveals itself as the fight goes on rather than working it out in the ring

I certainly think there are fighters in this age the likes of which we haven't seen before
Pacquiao or Lomanchenko
I can't really remember fighters like this back in the day
But somehow it is "less great" and I am not sure on the rationale behind that

My conclusion on it is that it must be due to the fact that no boys club forms around the best fighters anymore, and they tend to stay devided and rarely come head to head. So...

I don't know 100% what the answer is, but certainly fighters DO practice tighter styles these days, but it also seems to me to be partly due to the machine behind the boxing matches and also the amount of matchups we see between the most prominent boxers and how LOOOOONG it takes to get them hyped up etc

I dunno what it is, I really don't, but certainly talent exists today and I don't think it is as rare as catching lightning in a bottle as it is often implied when talking about the past
So yeah
Certainly talent exists today but they seek glory through titles and money rather than through going after known fighters
Cuz nobody is "known" unless they self promoted
And if they self promoted, it isn't exactly a battle for glory, but rather a matter of cash incentive, so maybe playing it safer makes more sense

Something like that is at play
Talent isn't lacking, but the setup is somehow hijacked a bit