[GIF] Max Baer showing skill and reflexes with a triple jab, followed by a sharp combo, and a slip

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Which is perfectly fine. But there is a line here, and it gets crossed to unreasonable degrees.
I love that people can see beyond Foremans technical awkwardness to see what he brings as a whole. I love that.
I hate that people see Baer do something awkward and become stuck on it while seemingly ignoring his better moments, which aren't nearly as painstaking to find as people exaggerate.

The real barometer is the fact that they are both upper echelon fighters, and both lineal HW champions. No Lineal HW champion ever had serious boxing deficiencies. At that point, you're comparing who is better than who. Not Boxer X can't jab, etc.

One fighter benefits from holistic interpretations.
The other doesn't.

I want to be clear that Foreman is obviously greater than Max Baer.
However, there is a huge imbalance between what people excuse vs. criticize between both fighters.

I can only speak from my experience. I've poured through and analyzed so much footage.
I cut, and edit, meaning I observe and seek the details. I don't just chill and watch entire fights. I look for everything.
And I can't ignore the serious injustice in the way many older fighters are viewed on this forum.
And it prevents more lively and accurate discussions about who is better than who, and so forth.

I feel that maybe we can become more project oriented. Where members work together to vote and decide on what hypotheses to test! That's how we truly utilize what we have here. Not by having us bicker at each other.

We can start building some real foundation of knowledge and start getting somewhere. Maybe I'll think of something. But then again, I wouldn't feel good putting in honest work for a platform that is maintained by someone who doesn't respect me. So that doesn't look like it's happening.

 

Thank you B
And a quick note of appreciation for engaging in honest and open discussion.

 

Your second sentence seems to be in tension with the other two...

 

LOL well Farr was a very good boxer and at any time that a brute force specialist can box with him, it's to be complimented.

 

Max Baer was a lot better than some are giving him credit for.
The way people talk you'd think he just plodding in with no defense whatsoever, swinging wildly like some mad bum of the street corner.

But if you want him he's doing boxing.

He's no Willie Pep, but he was capable of being awkward and setting traps. He beat plenty of much "better boxers" than himself.

reznick was correct to bring up that Nazim Richardson video about Wilder. Richardson says it best. The same would apply to Max Baer.

 

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Baer v Comiskey.
That was not a case of just a lucky punch. Baer was boxing the guy in his own way from the very beginning. He had no intention of getting into an orthodox jab and box contest with Comiskey who was at least a decent and rangey second-rater. So he came out cagey and awkward, crouching and feinting, and then switching to a bit of brute force and putting the pressure on Comiskey to box.
Baer is often castigated for being lazy but often his ebb-and-flow style tended to work. He'd catch up with the opponent sooner or later and where him down.

I'm not saying Baer was anything great and scientific but he wasn't winning contests without doing some thinking ... or at least fighting in such a way as to make the opponent OVER-think .

 

What’s your take on the clip that Reznick posted to start off this thread? An impressive display of skill and reflexes? Your candid response would be much appreciated.

 

What do you make of the fact that Louis' trainer was a former fighter who was in his prime around 1900? You see where I'm going with this?

 

Dude your point on Baer is extreme. Yes , he was the Joe Gas of his day. I personally never said men from earlier eras lacked skills. I just wrote specifically that Max Baer was not that good. Here's your defensive wiz ..

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While we use clips , here's Jimmy Young, devastating KO artist ..

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That later generations learn - and add to - what they hear from earlier ones? I agree

 

My take is this
Good on him for trippling up the jab, it got him inside
Then he just rough housed the guy with not so serious punches (hmm needs better posture so he can get power into them)
And when the innevitable fight back came, he knew about it and just leant back

He was aware that rough housing a guy leads to him firing back, cool
So why didnt he then use it as an opportunity to counter punch?
C'mon
Defeats the purpose of it if you create such an opportunity but do nothing with it

My guess is, he tried to do this several times in order to bait punches to land a good blow
Or at least that is how I see him using it
Decent clip
But I don't marvel at such things, I just look at the boxing (as I described above)

- if you get inside have the posture to land a good blow
- if you rough a guy up, set up the counter cuz its only a matter of time
- consistently rough a guy up and you may create openings (baer chose this option)

Those are three things to take away

 

I see no relevance in the Jimmy Young clip besides the fact that it exposes the mentality behind these critiques.

If you’re comparing Baer to Young in technique, of course you’re going to think this way. But why on God’s green Earth would anyone do that? They have such different styles.

Golovkin sucks because he can’t jab on the outside like Tommy Hearns?

Foreman sucks because he can’t dance like Ali?

Robinson sucks because he can’t shoulder roll like Floyd?

That’s exactly the logic I’m seeing here.

 

I’ll just simply say that expecting Baer to counter off that slip is like expecting him to be the MJ of boxing. The expectation is unreasonable and abstract. And if the same standard were to be applied to all boxers, they’d all stink.

 

Is there any evidence that Blackburn taught Louis things that were absent in Blackburns era?

Or is it just some assumption that “sounds right.”

 

“Everyone that Deontay Wilder fought, was better than him. Don’t y’all realize that don’t matter?” - Naz