Great Fighters who never won a world title

i dispute that. He might have the Ring Magazine title but he is not the best Arthur Abraham is IMO.

And i think KP doesnt want to fight him

 

Arthur Abraham is his no.1 contender, until they fight it remains that way.

After Hagler retired, Kalambay and Nunn fought to determine who's the real champ and Nunn won, then Toney beat Nunn and became linear champ. He left the division and 8 years later Hopkins became the real champ, Taylor beat him, then Pavlik beat Taylor. So, technically Abraham is the contender, he's not a champion.

Arthur Abraham is prolly better though, he can have alot of big fights come his way. If he actually comes to the USA, abraham could become a big star.

 

And despite that, Williams has not fought Floyd, Shane, Cotto or Clottey and in the one meaningful fight he had at welterweight against Margarito, he nearly lost. He'd probably beat them all other than Floyd, but he hasn't proven it. He's 1-1 against Quintana, which is quite embarassing for him.

But beyond that, can you tell me that looking at a fight like Graham-Gavilan III you honestly believe the welterweights today could beat Graham? Or even looking at his fight with Giardello that someone like Taylor or Pavlik would beat him?

 

I wouldn't say the present day fighters avoid unification fights. It's more to do with the sanctioning bodies than the fighters themselves. Last nights fight with Cotto and Clottey is a prime example. The IBF were the ones who never put their title on the line. Nothing to do with Clottey. Although some fighters do avoid others, just like 60-70 years ago. But it must be said, boxing is far more of a business these days with PPV, and unbeaten records are paramount to the promoters and TV executives.

What I will say about someone like Pep. The amount of fights he had is one of the reasons he's rated so highly. But what percentage of those 220 fights would you shout about regarding his resume? Not too many. People talk about Wright, Agnott, Saddler, etc. At least with a modern day great like Whitaker, around 8 of his 40 opponents are truely worthy at world level. Pep's career is enchanced simply with quantity. And hardly anyone on this board knows more than 10-15 of the 200+ names on his record.

 

Why isnt the fight with winky meaningful, cuz he's too old now? Please he didnt almost lose to margarito i saw that fight live on tv, it was a clear win. Didnt he outland him like 1000-500 or something like that, i dont have the stats with me but I remember Williams outlanding him by 500 shots.

I have yet to see any of the boys from 147-160 publically call out Paul Williams, as soon as they call him out they know hes gonna accept it. I would also gladly put money on him against nearly everybody.

Williams vs Mosley: vernon forrest all over again
Williams vs Cotto: stoppage win
Williams vs Sergie Dzindiruk: never seen that dude fight but he hasnt called him out.
Williams vs Cory Spinks: stoppage win
Williams vs Magarito rematch: same thing again
I know he would win all of his fights, I dont need to prove he will become an ATG, its his destiny and he will fullfill it.

 

bp i know KPs linear champ and AAs contender im just saying hes not the best

Robbi good point when you think about it them older fighters fought way more but looking at their record its only a small percentage that are actually world class fights whereas nowadays they fight less but they have a higher percentage of fights at the top level or they should in theory.

However boxing was more active in the past and i do believe there was a bigger pool of talent in every division so someone like Pep cleaned out his division for close to 10 years against a deep pool of fighters some we migth not have heard of but who are very good fighters and could become an alphabet champ today. Because there was alot more boxers fighting in them days

 

He looked just a little washed up don't you think?

Out threw, didn't outland him by that total. He still clearly outlanded him, but Margarito landed the harder shots by far. Personally I had it 7-5 for Williams, like most others did.

You have a lot of faith in him it seems. I'd like to see him get some of those wins before we even start talking about him being an excellent fighter let alone a great one.

 

Earnie Shavers would be a World Champion if he were boxing today I've no doubt.

 

That's true enough, but the bottom line is guys aren't facing each other today as they were in the past. That, together with the fact that the talent pools are shallower today because of the lower participation levels in the sport, mean that we are getting some guys with sparkling records that are next to meaningless.

Pep fought a lot of fodder, but he still has a better resume than anyone in the game today if you consider all the good fighters he did face (and the stages in their careers when he faced them). And Pep is probably one of the old time greats with one of the least impressive list of name fighters he fought. It's no coincidence that his record itself looks so sparkling, compared to other fighters that are arguably better, but who faced tougher comp and compiled lesser records.

 

Personally, I like Williams. But as SS has pointed out, he's got a lot of proving to do before really cementing his place as even a potentially great fighter. He's a handful, no question. Towering height, a decent jab, busy hands, and he's also a lefty. He needs a breakthrough fight sooner rather than later. He's not established himself like Mosley or Cotto, and he's a million miles away from becoming a star attraction like Mayweather. He's kind of shot himself in the foot by moving to middleweight, although he needed to move up due to his frame. The marquee fighters are at welterweight where he was previously.

 

SS

Pep dosent have the best names on his resume but who was there to fight he had completely cleaned out his division and dominated it. Not mnay fighters these days can say that the only recent one is Bernard Hopkins at MW

 

He fought everyone in his division and plenty of lightweights as well. I'm simply saying that his resume is not as stacked as a lot of the other old time greats, and that accounts for why his record looks absolutely ridiculously good in comparison to theirs. Compared to most touted latter day greats though, I still think Pep's resume is outstanding.

 

Do you rank pep above ezzard charles or below?

 

Below.

I sometimes rank fighters with lesser resumes above fighters with superior resumes if other factors come into it (e.g. if I think the fighter with the lesser resume is better in a h2h sense, was more dominant in his time, was more consistent, looks better on available footage etc.) but in the case of Pep and Charles, I have Charles ahead.

I am not totally enamoured with Pep from the footage I've seen, but i've basically seen fragments of him when he was past his best. It's entirely possible that if I saw him at his best I'd put him over Charles. Not having the complete story it's hard to say who definitively belongs above who.

 

were singing of the same hyme sheet

but a fighter beating everyone in his division surly gives him extra points for his resume. If there was noone else to fight.

Above

fair enough i have them around about each other with pep slightly in front.

You know im a huge Pep fan but even the after his prime stuff he is still amazing.

Isnt the Walton and Cam footage from his prime. Also what happened to the Chalky Wright fights as they were filmed on TV