Great trainers as fighters

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Aug 13, 2022.

  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who were the best? Who were the worst? Who were good but not great? And who didn’t even fight (at least as a pro)?

    We know you don’t have to be a great practitioner of any sport to be a great coach of it — Bill Belichick and Nick Saban are the greatest pro and college football coaches of all time and neither was a great player. Same goes for many great baseball managers and basketball coaches.

    Emmanuel Steward and Eddie Futch were a combined 5-0 in brief pro careers. George Benton was a contender but never a champion or title challengers, and lost most of his fights against the very top tier of competition. Freddie Roach (trained by Futch) was at best a gatekeeper and Kevin Rooney was less than that, getting stopped early by Alexis Arguello in his only notable fight.

    I think Whitey Bimstein had 70 or so fights. Not sure about Ray Arcel or Freddie Brown or others of that era.

    What can we make of their careers? Are there any who were truly outstanding who achieved a ton as trainers?
     
  2. Tockah

    Tockah F-GOAT Full Member

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    I think Jack Blackburn dominates this criteria.
     
  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tell us more.
     
  4. Tockah

    Tockah F-GOAT Full Member

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    To be frank it's outside my realm of knowledge, I just know him to have been regarded very well. His wikipedia page though makes evident his accomplishments as a trainer are without a doubt a product of an extensive 23 year career against some of the boxers of all time.
     
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  5. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He was a world class fighter, but fell just short of beating a champ, he fought anybody and everybody from around 1906 onwards, had numerous fights with Gans, Langford, the Sullivan twins, even held old Sam to a draw on couple of occasions, had the temerity to lock horns with Gunboat Smith, who out weighed him some 30lb, he was a no nonsense light, come welterweight who would frequently take on and beat bigger and heavier men, led a somewhat unsavoury life outside the ring, and had a hair trigger temper, as such went on a shooting spree in 1909 and shot 3 people ( including his own wife ) and spent many years in prison, on his release he turned his hand to training and coaching fighters, and proved very successful, and amongst his charges was, Sammy Mandell, Bud Taylor, and of course the Brown Bomber.
    He nickname was " Chappie " and just before 1 of Louis title defenses he said to Joe, " make it quick tonight Joe, only I don't feel too well " he died the next day.
    So yes a dark and mysterious fighter, and a very good trainer.
    stay safe buddy.
     
  6. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    See below buddy.
     
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  7. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great post. Thanks for sharing and expanding my knowledge of a (to me at least, as I don’t study that era) overlooked great. I knew some about him as a trainer but didn’t know his background.
     
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  8. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    My pleasure, happy to help buddy.
    stay safe amigo.
     
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  9. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You can read more about Blackburn (and Louis’s) feud with Jack Johnson here

    This content is protected
     
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  10. Jackstraw

    Jackstraw Mercy for me, justice for thee! Full Member

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    Great read, bud - thanks for posting it :beer-toast1:
     
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  11. Fogger

    Fogger Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Buddy McGirt is a really good trainer and was a really good fighter.

    George Benton was a very good trainer and was darn good as a fighter.
     
  12. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, if the highly skilled, nuanced moves of Joe Louis were reasonable reflections of what Blackburn and his contemporaries were already practicing back in their own day - the old timers definitely deserve a re-think by those who dismiss them out of hand due to poor or complete lack of footage.

    I guess there’s no accounting for exactly how much Blackburn contributed to the great fighter Louis became.
     
  13. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Emile Griffith
     
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  14. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    Great find and post .. many thanks for bringing it to our attention ... the SI Vault is an exceptional resource ...
     
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  15. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I believe that Charlie Goldman had a lot of fights.