Greater Heavyweight? -- JEFFRIES vs JOHNSON

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by guilalah, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,997
    Likes Received:
    28,008
    Fair enough.

    He wasn't theirs either.

    He was Jeffries contender!
     
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,779
    Likes Received:
    2,119
    Yes I've noted this too. Add in old Choynski sparking up-an-coming Johnson and it is very rare.
     
  3. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    9,372
    Likes Received:
    475
    That is why Corbett, Fitz, Jackson, Choynski and Co (Jeffries is usally lumped in their) were considered a golden generation much like the 70s is now. It is a shame that most people ignore this and they are genreally downgraded to below all of the later eras.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,997
    Likes Received:
    28,008
    This has to be brought into the argument.

    Practically everybody on this forum rates the best champions of the 30s shuffle higher than Corbett and Fitzsimmons, but you would have been hard pressed to find somebody of that opinion prior to the second world war.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    98,716
    Likes Received:
    30,641
    How about answering my question? Which of them do you pick to beat a prime Johnson?
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    98,716
    Likes Received:
    30,641
    I said Jeffries would have beaten Johnson early in his reign. Prime for prime Johnson always beats him imo. Joe Gans disagreed he picked Jeffries to beat Johnson though he and Jack were good friends. Johnson in a sydicated series of articles, and in two books picked Fitzsimmons as the greatest heavyweight.
     
  7. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    23,796
    Likes Received:
    2,396
    hard to say with these 2, both had there day and when they did meet Jeffries was 35-36 after a 6-year lay-off and had to lose 70-100lbs with no tune-up so I'm sure a prime Jeffries would have been a much much bigger problem....I go back and forth but both stood out in their day
     
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,986
    Likes Received:
    1,270

    The wins over Fitz, though, could certainly be viewed in a different manner. Other than the fluke loss by DQ to Sharkey, no one else but Jeffries defeated Fitz from Feb 1890 to Dec 1905, a period of almost 16 years. I think one could view this as within the time and place (discounting questions of size) as about as impressive a pair of wins as one could imagine.
     
  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,779
    Likes Received:
    2,119
    valid point :good
     
  10. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,906
    Likes Received:
    6,253
    Both were great. Johnson has the edge in resume.

    Both missed the opportunity to become an arguable #1 of all time (along with Louis and Ali) by not facing each other in their primes.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    98,716
    Likes Received:
    30,641
    Whose fault was it they did not meet then ?:think
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    114,820
    Likes Received:
    51,890
    It's unknown if their primes could even have overlapped.
     
  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,906
    Likes Received:
    6,253
    "Jeffries" and/or "Society" would be the credited responses. "Hart" would be worth half credit.

    Not that it matters, though. You don't get points for greatness by getting ducked.
     
  14. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,906
    Likes Received:
    6,253
    Eh, they were close enough right before Jeffries retired. From a historical perspective, a Johnson/Jeffries match would have been among the two or three greatest heavyweight fights of all time. It would have equaled Louis/Schmeling II in historical significance, but been a showdown of two ATGs near their primes like Ali/Frazier I.

    A green Johnson would be the best scalp on Jeffries's resume, and a prime Jeffries would be better than anything on Johnson's.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    114,820
    Likes Received:
    51,890
    It was absolutely huge anyway...I think that Jeffries might have toppled over, given his style, if he'd remain active enough to be considered prime around 05. Of course, there's no way to know really.