Greatest bareknuckle fighter of all time (head to head)

Looking at the Sullivan Killrain pics, it seems very clear that Sullivan was very overweight and therefore far from his best, you would think. But some things did jump out stylistically for me. He seemed to place his weight right forward on his front which probably meant that he was always moving forward, though i tend to think that he may get a little off balance if fighting a mover.

I also found it strange that in nearly all the pics, Sullivans hands had found their way inside those of Kilrain. This is where guys like Johnson or Jeffries in later years seemed to use their strength in the clinches and land the uppercut. I wonder whether the uppercut was in John L's repertoire, i would have thought it was, although i think that he may have peferred landing straighter punches at range. Of course it may have been that the holding allowed under LPR meant that the uppercut was far less effective and able to be landed.

In fairness to Sullivan, i get the feeling that the pics showed of him seem to indicate that a lack of conditioning hurt him in the Kilrain fight. Kilrain looks in excellent condition, and to me i think that it is an astonishing effort for him to find a win in this fight despite not being at his best. I am fairly sure that a prime Sullivan would have beaten him much earlier.

I think that Prime Sullivan approaches his fights with Mike Tyson like agression, even under LPR rules.

 

The actor in Hard Times or the Welshman once voted most dangerous man in the UK?

 

Great thread. I'll lurk and add a comment or two where I can.

Regarding footage of Sullivan...I saw an Ali documentary many years ago which showed some champions of the past hitting what today we'd call the speed bag.

There was footage of Sulllivan, Dempsey, Louis and Ali.

Although this film was taken when Sullivan was old and fat (similar to what you see in the youtube footage) it was clear that he possessed an almighty clout with either hand.
He was hitting the bag with these tremendous roundhouse swings, putting everything behind his punches. Considering his age, it was pretty impressive, if slightly amateurish compared to the more sophisticated Ali.
The footage lasted only a few seconds...maybe six or seven seconds. Anyone else seen it?

 

There's a six/seven second bit of footage buried in the second youtube clip that I posted where he hits the speed bag. Is it that, by any chance?

 

I think so, yes. It looks familiar...

 

Yes, Bare Knuckle fighting did not disappear but because of the dissipating interest, the talent generally dissipated with it. Paddy Ryan was also one of the poorer fighters, and he made championship status.

Tom King was indeed a solid fighter, but the problems encountered by Mace where severe. Joe Berks just about gave the two-eyed Belcher his sternest test, but the resulting damage was a swollen left cheek in three fights where he was generally blitzed.

Mace was a lovely operator, but if theoretically pitched against Belcher, Pearce, Gulley and Cribb, the size and skill factors would have to place him as the underdog.

 

you guys know your stuff

 

I also think Jem Belcher possessed probably the greatest talent in the openweight class in the what was called the Golden Age of bareknuckle fighting but agree that his ring greatness was cut short by injury. In the lighter divisions I would go for Jack Randall or Dutch Sam at middleweight and Dick Curtis or Young Dutch Sam at lightweight simply because of their unbeaten or nearly unbeaten records and the supposed class of men they fought. But it is probably impossible to compare fighters from different era's especially without witnessing them first hand, without any film evidence, probably inaccurate records and the myths built up around many of them.

 

kTFOD by Bert Cooper in 1 round

 

Based on the footage I have personally seen, I would say this woman:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmlWUh9iFH0[/ame]