Film or no film, I still see plenty of evidence for Greb to rank at the #1 spot (have him tied at #1 when Ray). Langford, not so much as impressive as his resume is.
Lack of footage doesn't change anything, in my eyes. What does it take away from their accomplishments? Does the fact that we haven't seen it mean it didn't happen?
The thing is that expectations of Greb are unrealistic. He will never look as good on film as some people hope or think he will. In fact in his day he was criticized pretty regularly for looking very amateurish and unpolished on occasion. It was what he was able to accomplish in spite of of this supposed lack of polish that is impressive. If footage of Greb ever surfaces I would not be a bit surprised if people were underwhelmed by how he LOOKED but the fact of the matter is you can argue with results and his record is one of the greatest ever by far film or no film.
Lack of footage should not alter my opinion, and so many other experts, who saw Harry Greb and Ray Robinson,and believe he was the best P4p fighter of alltime. His unbelievable record speaks for itself. Harry Greb did amazing things in the ring that Ray Robinson never attempted, such as licking great fighters,who weighed 15-40 pounds more than Greb did often, regardless of race or style. It bears repeating that Greb [who my dad saw lick Tunney,1925],whippedTunney, tommy Gibbons, Jack Dillon, Tommy Loughran, Battling Levinsky,Maxie Rosenbloom,Bill Brennan,etc and other heavier men in a talent rich era. some many times... His record will never be surpassed, because he had unique assets, such as blinding speed hand and foot, great stamina, and an iron chin...Other fighters had good speed, but they were not blessed with great strength, and ruggedness...In close Greb more than held his own with larger men.A rough tough resourceful man was Harry Greb. If they found a film of greb fighting,it woulkd noit change my oppinion of him... It would take numerous films to evaluate Greb's ability.It would depend on what fights were found..One swalloiw does not make a spring . For example, say 100 years from now there were no more film existing of ray Robinson except Robinson fighting Tiger Jones, or Henry Armstrong [which i attended],or his close bouts with Marty Servo...What would those fans conclude ? Probably would say " hey, Robinson was overated "!.Wrong they would be...It is the great body of work that determines a fighters place in history, and what his record and contemporaries judge of him...Thus on that basis i place Harry Greb on top.
I hear what you're saying K, but do you not think that just by showing examples of his dominance (ugly or not) that the person judging would be given more of an idea of what and why he was so great? I just can't see him being rated lower if his film didn't live up to expectations. No matter what we can't change the fact that he beat great fighters, and many who we've been able to see on film some what extensively. In the end it is the win that counts most, no?