Gutsy, limited fighters?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Robot16, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    Right. As the question posed though concerned having little natural or technical ability, I don't see Marciano as a suitable candidate.

    Leon Spinks was the least skilled member of the 1976 US Olympic Boxing team, but he was gifted with excellent natural power and hand speed, along with guts. Therefore, I wouldn't include him here either.

    Carnera had great heart, but his stature was also a tremendous asset. He also had the best jab of any tall man of the era, clearly surpassing the jabs of Buddy Baer, Campolo and Impellitiere in efficacy. Thus, I wouldn't group him here either.
     
  2. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    Leon Spinks had great stamina too. At least he did when he fought Ali the first time. Ali expected him to tire but that never happened and he won that fight purely on workrate and great stamina. I don't know much about Carnera and haven't seen one of his fights in awhile. Guess I'll watch some this weekend.:good
     
  3. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    Sam Solomon also devised a specific plan for countering the rope a dope, entailing tactics like deliberately aiming punches at Ali's biceps to compromise his ability to return fire in the late rounds, as well as scoring blows to the sides. Leon carried out Solomon's instructions to the letter, so much so that Muhammad knew he'd have to condition himself to keep the action in center ring for the rematch. (Can you imagine what Marciano would have done to his arms, or what Shavers might have accomplished with Solomon's strategy?) Once Leon won the title though, the parasites and leeches came out of the woodwork, and shoved Solomon aside. (One would think Leon's military service in the USMC would have instilled a sense of discipline in him, but he just didn't have it.)
    Start with Carnera-Sharkey II, watch it from beginning to end, and tell us if it looked like a fix to you. (I just looked for Carnera-Impellitiere, but it seems to have been taken down.)
     
  4. horst

    horst Guest

    In a different way, I'd nominate Joe Calzaghe. I know many people will baulk at that, but in my opinion Joe never had much technical ability. His defence was weak, his punching was not particularly accurate, but his will to win and relentlessness allied with his physical gifts of speed, stamina and resilience made him very difficult to beat. I am aware there is an ESB school of thought who believe Calzaghe was some sort of unorthodox and near invincible h2h monster, but I never saw that in him at all. His zero would have been quick to go had he met a prime, top level opponent with good power and accuracy. His 'awkwardness/unorthodox style' was IMO simply a lack of technical skills compensated by playing to his own physical strengths, and made successful by a very strong mentality. All in all, a flawed fighter who somewhat overachieved because of the qualities mentioned by the thread-starter.
     
  5. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sam Soliman
     
  6. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Gutsy, limited fighters" is the thread title. If "gutsy with no skills" is what you're looking for, we probably wouldn't recognize the names of those qualified. There were tons of them, though, in various gyms all around the planet, and at various times in boxing history. Just gutsy, with no natural skills at all, usually isn't enough to become a household name in boxing. Marciano was certainly "limited" in the heavyweight division for many reasons. His guts, and limited natural attributes, carried the day for him.
     
  7. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    Thanks for the info I'll be sure to watch Carnera-Sharkey 2. Sorry for getting to ya late but we should meet up at one point.
     
  8. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    Carnera was a "Walking Mountain" the guy was huge.(pun intended). I saw the fight and he would leon on him, push him, nail him with a few uppercuts, and basically bully him. Primo made sure his size wouldn't go to waste that night. Sharkey lunged at times and caught Carnera with some good shots like left hooks. I found out that Sharkey was able to time him in rnd 4 with jabs but didn't stick to that strategy long and still lunged at times. As for a fix, well he was mob affiliated so there will always be a cloud of suspicion over him and fighters with mob connections in that time. The first knockdown in the 6th round seemed more like a slip to me as Sharkey was already slipping when Primo tried to land the right hook. Primo's uppercut didn't seem like it landed. It all seemed fishy to me.....
     
  9. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I never view Basilio as limited, He beat many GREAT boxers.

    Limited boxers for the most part cant do that.

    Basilio also had a lot of tools on his side, high punch out put, iron chin, will, abilty to take any fighter and FORCE them to fight toe to toe.
     
  10. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    I was also looking at the technique with which Carnera delivered that uppercut though, pivoting towards Jack with his right foot, and driving straight up with all his weight behind it. At that instant, Sharkey was pinned against the ropes in a bad position, and looked like he was trying to slip away to his right when the finisher came. Knockout punches generally come when they are unseen, and it did not look like Jack was likely to spot this one from his orientation to Primo. The debate will always continue, but my personal belief is that Sharkey was telling the truth when he claimed he didn't take a dive. (Jack pretty much outlived any mobsters who might have gone after him if he claimed what Jack Johnson alleged for himself after losing to Willard.)

    Sharkey had gone far back since their first match, while Carnera had improved markedly.
     
  11. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Jerry Quarry... although he was more skilled than some will admit! J

    Joe Hipp
    Tex Cobb
    Micky Ward
    Arturo Gatti- Gatti had good skills but loved to slug
    Ray Oliveira
    Ricardo Mayorga
    Hector Lopez
    Sammy Fuentas
    Jaime Balboa
     
  12. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    :goodGood post. It's possible that Carnera knocked him out and likeYou said it's usually the punch you don't see that knocks you out. It's uncertain whether it's a dive or not but one things for sure...he was a the wrong spot at the wrong time and Primo was in the mood to finish him.
     
  13. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yhonny Perez is pretty skilled imo, so is Vic in an awkward kind of way besides with power like his you cant be considered limited.
     
  14. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hecould punch that doesnt make him limited.
     
  15. ricardinho

    ricardinho Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yhonny limited ...:lol:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX_CUsa9CC4&feature=player_embedded[/ame]