Had Roy Jones retired after the Ruiz fight...

He wasn't at his peak either was he?

 

If we're being real, the "Crying Jordan" meme has damaged his rep much more than his time with the Wizards.

 

The strange part is thst the first Tarver fight borders on a top five win of his career and proved Roy could dig deep to win.

 

Just how ignorant are you?

I gave you the specifics in the other thread.

You never came back.

Now here you are typing out the exact same nonsense.

 

I'm just not sold on 93 Hopkins. It's not just that it was Hopkins' first title fight- it was his first fight against a top 10 rated middleweight, period. It took him 2 more attempts and 2 more years to win a title and beat a world rated fighter in Mercado.

That loss was part of what made Hops grow into a great fighter (along with the draw in Mercado I). He wasn't there yet in 93.

Nobody thought he was, which is why the fight was viewed as more of a formality for Roy and didn't receive much hype beyond "its Roy's first title fight, and after this maybe he'll fight Gerald, Reggie, or maybe move up for Toney".

That's not to say it was worthless or anything, of course. Beating a contender level fighter is always worth something. That's all Bernard was in 93, though. Toney was a different tier entirely.

 

He avoided fights and didn't fight him. The excuses are not valid. He could have made the fights. And Michael Nunn was a fight I wanted to see. I always thought Michael could have given him a tough fight. Beat him? I don't know. Jones was a great fighter and probably would have beaten DM and Nunn, but it would have pushed him to have a harder earlier career, which then challenges a guy more and makes them earn a great status.

 

They aren't excuses.

What I typed out on the other thread was factual. And if you want the sources, you can have them.

It's easy for you to type out that he could have made the fights.

Two quick examples: Eubank and Hopkins.

Again, Eubank is on record as saying he'd only have fought Roy at SMW, had Roy have became his WBO mandatory. Yet Roy could never have been his WBO mandatory. Roy wasn't even ranked by the WBO.

Again, Hopkins demanded $10m or no fight.

So how could he have fought them?

Where are the excuses??

 

I know when I guy avoids fights like Roy and Floyd, and Roy avoided guys and did a little of what Floyd did his whole career. Hopkins probably didn't want Roy, but I know the DM fight would have been a good one.

 

Stop digging your heels in.

Again, everything that I posted previously can be backed up.

This content is protected

 

I am not sure if you lived the era. Some of you guys think you can say what negotiations happened and that it means Roy pushed for fights. He did not. He could have fought better guys, and he did not.. And today we have revisionists who forget Roy's lack of big fights. It was a shame really. and I think the lack of big fights in his prime hurts his career.

 

This is a really funny comment to me, btw
in humor .. not saying anyone is right or wrong

 

Whoever Roy did or didn't fight, the depth and quality his resume is top notch. Can you say that other all time great such as Dempsey, Hagler, Monzon, Holmes, Foster and so many others... had deeper resumes?

Ali and Greb are the two guys who fought everybody and it pretty much killed them both.

 

For me, RJJ looked otherworldly in his prime. H2H, I have him very high. Some people have him top 10 all time h2h, and that's arguable.

But he suffers from two legitimate criticisms that when factored into his total atg evaluation, place him somewhat lower that his high eye test skills might suggest.

The first criticsm is that he didn't push himself to fight better competition than he could have. Hopkins and Toney are great wins, but looking at his resume it's ....ok. Not bad, but somewhat lacking in depth. There is no Pacquiao, Froch, Delahoya thirst to take on the best routinely as he might have. Still, this is a criticism that damages his legacy much less imo than #2.

His chin in later years has been proven to be what we can charitably call "fragile". This is important because in measuring him against top notch atg talent, one takes pause in picking him against say, Bob Foster or Archie Moore. A boxer like Hopkins who declines due to skill degradation gets the benefit of the doubt. Time and again RJJ has been starched of late, and the lingering question asked is"Could he take an atg power?"