Had Tunney not retired when he did

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KO KIDD, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    If Tunney continued to fight and defend his title how lon could he have lasted?

    Would he have beaten the likes of Sharkey and Carnera and Baer and Braddock?

    Could he have reigned til Joe Louis?
     
  2. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Schmeling gives him the most problems. He was too smart for Baer, too good for Braddock, too fast and conditioned for Carnera, and too composed for Sharkey.
     
  3. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Posts on this subject were how I introduced myself to ESB Classic in April 2007. I believe that the insanely disciplined Tunney, defending at a once per year pace, could have retained the title until Louis was ready to take it. Furthermore, I think Gene may well have had a successful first defense against the Bomber, and forced Joe to win the championship in a second challenge, making Louis have to dethrone him by decision in the process. Tunney could well have become the oldest heavyweight champion until Foreman while doing so. He was a late bloomer with a style which aged well, and was still improving against Heeney.
     
  4. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    I agree. Tunney-Heeney is absolutely the best Gene ever looked in any of the films we have of him which says a lot.
     
  5. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tunney would have beaten Schmeling, nonetheless...in fact he would have beaten all the champions between his retirement and Joe louis..Gene would have been a spent force by '35 & '36....and i'm sure he would have wisely retired by then if not sooner.
     
  6. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If he did somehow manage a successful defense against Louis (whether by decision or draw, as I doubt he ever could have stopped Joe with his own fast right over the top, but that was still a weapon I don't believe the Bomber would have had an answer for in a first challenge-especially if Schmeling doesn't get to Joe beforehand), I think Gene definitely would have seen the writing on the wall at that point, understand the bullet he'd just dodged, and likely retire. (Of course once Louis beat him, there'd be no question of attempting to continue.)
     
  7. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tunney's laser-like prudence would have secured the gold under for at least two more years. He took care of himself and at the time of his retirement was taking on an extra-mature sheen. His body had grew admirably into heavyweight poundage and his punches were becoming more hurtful, putting that missing poison on the tip of his spears.

    Schmeling would have given him the most to chew over because he took his time and his right hand gave you good reason to take your time. Still, to sight Schmeling the victor is rather wishful in Ted Spoon's book of references.

    Baer would have been made a fool of, Sharkey would have dragged his feet through a decision, and Carnera would have been neatly tattooed.

    On the point of Tunney's continuation, it's really a case of 'when would the knees have started creaking?'
     
  8. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    I think that Tunney would have also had much to fear from a matured Loughran in a rematch.
     
  9. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He could have beaten Schmelling and Sharkey in 1930. Gene may have lost rematches to them though,a couple of years down the line.
     
  10. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He would have to pick and choose his way very well in order to last until Joe Louis without a loss. Going through each of the early 1930's heavyweights would be too difficult for an aging Tunney. Sharkey, Baer, Schmeling, Loughran, even Carnera all had the ability to defeat a great on their best night. Probably he'd drop a decision to atleast one of them, but potentially reverse it in a rematch. Tunney would have been 38 by 1935, which is pretty old for a heavyweight of that era. Jack Dempsey was getting whipped in boxing exhibitions by the likes of Kingfish Levinsky at that time.
     
  11. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think Schmelling was better than Tunney especially a past prime Tunney, still it would be an ATG technical boxing match
     
  12. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with this! I think Schmeling & Loughran both present a difficult fight for Tunney and would lean towards both of them beating him!

    PS I have not researched or crosss refrenced Wills later career (and don't feel like doing research at the minute)...would he still be relevant at this point in time and how might he fare against Tunney???
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I am more skeptical of Tunneys chances than most here.

    Whether a champion will be able to maintain discipline and consistency over a number of title defences against elite oponents is always a bit of an unknown. In reality verry few can.

    Also, age had to catch up with Tunney at some point.

    In these situations you don't usualy have to find the contender to beat the champion. The champion will find them himself, and it often wont be the candidate you suspected.
     
  14. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tommy was a wizard, but Gene had gotten much stronger and more powerful since 1922. (In July 1924, he weighed the same as Carp, 173, and the Orchid Man was of slight build all through his life.) Tunney was about 20 pounds heavier for Heeney, and brutalized the New Zealander on the inside. Loughran didn't have a fantastic chin, and if Sharkey could reach it, then Gene certainly could. But if Tunney continued into 1929, Tommy may well have been next in the queue, and what he did to Braddock certainly must have given a now spectating Gene plenty to contemplate on "what if?". Was Loughran in the back of his mind when he retired?

    However, Tommy took on heavyweights Peterson and Gross only after Tunney announced his retirement. In his last match prior to Tunney-Heeney, he defended his LHW Title against Latzo in Wilkes Barre at a weight of 172, 20 pounds lighter than Gene came in for Heeney at Yankee Stadium ten days later. In their 1922 draw, ten pounds separated Loughran from Gene. There's no record of anybody who took on Tunney spotting Gene 20 pounds. Of course Loughran would come in well above the LHW limit for a shot at Tunney, but his 172 for Latzo and 173 for Walker do offer some suggestion of the true difference in size and strength between them at this stage. It's a lot to give up physically to an opponent the caliber of 1928 Tunney, who nobody was even competitive with in his final 13 bouts after Greb IV in Cleveland (aside from the fleeting Long Count sequence, of course).
     
  15. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No, Wills was essentially finished by then. If Sharkey didn't burst the Wills bubble in October 1926, then Uzcudun certainly did in knocking out Harry for the movie cameras in July 1927. Those two back to back losses torpedoed Wills as a contender for good right after Tunney dethroned Dempsey. Harry was a viable challenger only for the first three weeks of Gene's reign. (And the activity level dropped way off for Wills after 1922, with two bouts each in 1923, 1924 and 1925, the Sharkey disaster in 1926, then Uzcudun in 1927. No fights in 1928, then five meaningless sporadic bouts from 1929 to 1932 mean he shouldn't have been rated as a contender anywhere anymore at the time Tunney retired.)