Hagler v Leonard 1982

i just think that contents of a book should not be used to assist in any post being made of an opinion on a what if fight,at that time marvin was not the only one doing the ducking so was ray and tommy and roberto they were all ducking aaron:think

 

It comes to something when the natural welter is ducking the career middle.
How often did spinks call out hagler?
Did hagler rsepond or duck?
Fact is hagler is one of the top middles of all time,but he always struggled with a tough cutie.

 

Are you ok?What the hell are you on about?In my post,I correctly wrote that Leonard was ducking Hagler,not the other way around.And by the way,just who the **** did Hagler duck?

 

FACT IS THAT LEONARD SPENT AT LEAST SIX YEARS PUBLICLY DISCUSSING FIGHTING HAGLER BUT NEVER ACTED ON IT UNTIL HE KNEW HAGLER WAS SHOT.That's called ducking.Spinks was never on Hagler's radar as he NEVER discussed fighting Spinks,but discussed breaking Monzon's record for middleweight title defenses,instead.THAT'S how it happened.

 

Youve missed the point entirely.
Leonard is a welter. Leonard retired in 82 and 84. Leonard beat hagler. (close competitive fight.) Leonard was inactive,past prime and above his best weight. (hagler was past his best as well.)
Leonard dared to be great in higher divisions.
Hagler should have sorted leonard out in the ring,not by his fans making excuses for his losing to the smaller inactive man.
Hagler was outfoxed and outsped by leonard.
Hagler is still one of the top middles of all time.

 

After falling behind on the cards,Hagler would catch up with Leonard,and stop him around the twelfth.

 

The book, although an interesting read, is slanted to Hagler's point of view. Certainly not the Gospel on what transpired between Leonard and Hagler.
It's revisionist history to suggest Leonard picked an over the hill Hagler. Hagler was still the top fighter in the world PFP and people were fearing for Leonard's health if not his life in this fight. Very, very few gave him a chance. Leonard got off on the perception that he "got over" on people. Examples: waiting out Hagler. The quick rematch with Duran (as if he's responsible for Duran's conditioning. Duran got out of shape if he had 5 months or 5 years to prepare for a fight). The fact is, his defeat of Hagler was a tremendous accomplishment.
In '87, Hagler was slightly on the downhill and came out with a dumbass gameplan. Leonard was clearly past best and had to have been a bit rusty.
In '82, this is most likely a 15 round fight. I'd lean toward Hagler not being an idiot and coming out southpaw, and I think the 15 round distance helps him. Also, Leonard would not have been as filled out in '82 and would have been even smaller compared to Hagler. But Leonard ALWAYS gives Hagler trouble. Duran gave Hagler trouble in '83. Hagler didn't plow through a less mobile Duran. I think it's a tossup over 15 in '82.

 

Hagler may have still been considered the #1 p4p fighter in the world,but that's due to the fact that he hadn't lost in a very,very long time and was still the defending middleweight Champ.Anyone with 2 eyes could see that he was slipping into oblivion.Leonard openly discussed fighting Hagler for more than 6 years.That's a fact.Hagler was fighting less than once a year himself at the end of his career.That's a fact.Hagler was at least 2 years older than Leonard and had many more total fights than Leonard did,even after Leonard continued his career.Those are facts.Hagler looked slow and old against slowpoke Roldan years before the Leonard fight.That's a fact.Hagler looked like he was stuck in quicksand and his reflexes were shot against Mugabi.Those are facts.After teasing Marvin and fight fans everywhere,Leonard finally decided to take on Marvin after Marvin looked slow and without reflexes against Mugabi.That's a fact.Marantz's book may be slanted towards Marvin because all he does is demonstrate the facts,which in all honest and unbiased retrospect,do not put Leonard in a good light.And if anyone was around at that time and seriously paying attention to what happened,they would have known for a fact that Leonard was ducking Hagler until he knew Hagler was shot which is exactly what happened.There is absolutely no revisionism there.Just facts.One more question for you.Why didn't Leonard fight Hagler when he started to publicly discuss the proposed fight THAT EVERY FIGHT FAN ON EARTH WAS CLAMORING FOR,instead of waiting until he did?

 

I didn't miss your point.Your point is full of holes.I saw the whole thing happen while it was happening.First off,again,as you're just not paying attention.Hagler never discussed moving up as it was his desire to break the Monzon record for consecutive middleweight defenses and be recognized as one of the greatest(if not the greatest)middleweights ever.So sorry if you can't accept that.Another point is that Leonard openly discussed fighting Hagler and teased everyone for years.Then he finally came back and challenged Hagler after Hagler was looking very,very vulnerable due to age and being shopworn.If anything you're missing the point.My question for you and everyone else on this matter is,why didn't Leonard choose to fight Hagler earlier AS HE PUBLICLY DISCUSSED FOR SIX YEARS?If he wasn't ducking Hagler for so long,why did he choose to challenge (shot)Hagler when he did and not earlier?Right after the Mugabi fight,Leonard said,"I can beat him," and then proceeded to challenge him.How so convenient.

 

I lived through the hagler leonard fight.
Hagler was a good favourite. Many thought lennys comeback was a big money gimmick.
I dont care if leonard said this and that in 82,84 or 86. He beat hagler in the ring where it matters.
Bottom line is Leonard SD 12 Hagler.
Get over it.

 

Lenny's comeback wasn't a money gimmick,it was a con job.You didn't answer the question.

 

You ask leonard himself why he didnt fight hagler in 82.
Maybe the detached retina?
In 84 maybe he felt he lost it after the howard fight.
Never mind being pedantic,you just look at the FACT that hagler lost to leonard IN THE RING.
Forget your whining and politics,in 87 hagler got ray in the ring and lost.
You should ask hagler how he lost to a welter with one fight in five years who was also the underdog?

 

First off,I'm not so sure Leonard deserved that decision.And I think if I asked Hagler,he might have said that he didn't lose.I'm not whining,just presenting a list of facts demonstrating what a ducker/conman Leonard was.Just facts.Now one more time.Why did Leonard duck Hagler despite talking about fighting him forever?

 

As ive already given my theories and leonard is not present,so i suggest you e-mail ray charles.
And when talking about facts lets conclude that hagler did indeed get leonard into the ring and lost.
Now if you want to repeat your points ad nauseum,or you dont want to acknowledge that hagler lost i suggest you waste your time watching hagler hearns or something of that ilk.

And leonard is such a conman/ducker that he indeed DID fight and beat Hagler by fair decision.
Isnt a ducker someone that doesnt even turn up to fight (like bowe v lewis.) and a conman one who gets by by deceit? (what deceit when neutral judges say SD?)
I suggest you look up the words 'duck' and 'conman',cos your posts suggest you are both...
ps; many fighters talk about fighting x and y,its called hyping to build up a match. Why cassius clay talked of fighting 15 different guys in a fifteen rounder,and micky tyson said he would take on half the gorillas in the world. Jones said he wanted tyson,whitaker jones,hopkins was going to heavy,greb wanted dempsey,blah,blah. Thing is ray Did what he said..... (eventually!!!)

 

Yeah Ray did after what,SIX YEARS,after discussing it for all that time.So what you're inferring is that Leonard was hyping up the fight for 6 years?I like your logic.And I'M the ducker and conman?Good one.I think you're just angry because you don't have a logical explanation for the reason Leonard purposely ducked Hagler for 6 years until he knew Hagler was shot.In boxing,a ducker is someone that purposely avoids an opponent,which is exactly what Leonard did for 6 years.And Leonard WAS a conman,too.He was being deceitful because he always discussed fighting Hagler,but really DIDN'T want to until he knew Marvin was shot.Ad nauseum,indeed.And by the way,you still didn't really answer the question.