How about a list of who is the toughest opponent to beat, at any given weight? I don't mean best chin or durability, or accomplishments in a given division; I mean who would stand the best chance of going undefeated against all the other best fighters who ever fought at that weight. Here's my list, I'll throw in cruiserweight but no other bullsh*t divisions: Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali (pre-prison) Cruiserweight: Rocky Marciano Light heavyweight: Gene Tunney Middleweight: Harry Greb Welterweight: Sugar Ray Robinson Lightweight: Pernell Whitaker Featherweight: Willie Pep Bantamweight: Eder Jofre Flyweight: Jimmy Wilde
Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield Light Heavyweight: Ezzard Charles Super Middleweight: Roy Jones Jr Middleweight: Ray Robinson and Marvin Hagler Light Middleweight: Thomas Hearns Welterweight: Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard Light Welterweight: Aaron Pryor Lightweight: Pernell Whitaker and Roberto Duran Super Featherweight: Floyd Mayweather Jr and Julio Cesar Chavez Featherweight: Henry Armstrong and Salvador Sanchez Super Bantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez Flyweight: Benny Lynch
You have him behind Saddler? why? A. Pep, despite being past his prime, managed to beat Sandy Saddler. He also clearly outboxed and was well ahead on the cards in the 3rd and 4th fights before saddlers illegal dirty tactics injured pep(in fairness, pep was no saint himself in clean fighting). Saddler really had the perfect style to beat pep, and for pep post plane crash to find a way to beat him, was truelly phenominal. B. Pep cleaned out the entire DECADE worth of featherweights who were rated in the top 10 by Ring Magazine...Saddler never had longevity or dominance like this. C. Pep was far more consistent than Saddler. He defeated top contender who beat Saddler. D. Pep was the greatest pure boxer who has ever graced the ring. I could go into detail about all the amazing things pep does, but bottom line is there is no one in my estimation at 126lb who can outpoint pep. He is the greatest boxer of all time. To beat him, you have to knock him out, and in his prime he was damm near impossible to find. If Saddler had faced Pep pre plane crash, he wouldn't have touched Pep. Saddler was a great great fighter too.
I know all about that and there's no question about it he is an absolute brilliant fighter and beautiful to watch, but at the end of the day he fought Sandy Saddler 4 times and lost 3 of them, its unfair to Saddler to rate Pep higher in my opinion,
Pep was past his prime when he fought Saddler. The man was coming off a near death in a PLANE CRASH where others died and he survived with a broken back! He was never supposed to walk again, let alone fight on, and defeat sandy saddler! Saddler wouldn't have touched Willie Pep in his prime. I am flabbergasted that you hold these losses against Pep.
but he was'nt shot he still was sucessful and was beating pretty much everyone except Saddler, so thats why I give Saddler credit, anyway honestly nothing against Willie Pep, I think he's brilliant, but as I said it's unfair to Saddler to rate Pep ahead of him, in my opinion.
oh and I completely disagree about Saddler not be able to lay a glove on Pep pre plane crash, Saddler is Pep's boogey man, always would of had nightmares with him.
Regardless of whether or not you think Pep did or didn't have the style to beat Saddler, I don't think it's wise to rate him ahead of Pep on a list like this. The reason being Saddler's style could be a foil to certain kinds, but also more capable of being exposed by others. A lot moreso than Pep's, anyway. I think Pep would've fared better against a larger variety of styles than Sandy. I think he did, actually, unquestionably.
I know that but I'm talking Hd 2 Hd with Saddler, but I get what your point is, Anyway what would of happened pre plane crash we will never now, what we do know is that they fought 4 times and Saddler won 3, we don't see people rating Ali on what he would do in his exile, only on what happened, why should Pep be treated any different, just trying to be fair.
1. Beating everyone(including Saddler, don't forget he beat him) around at the time despite being well past his prime is a testamant to how great Willie was(kind of like Ali in the mid 70s)... Sandy gets credit for the victories, but not full credit. 2. Saddler did not beat the best version of Willie Pep. No matter which way you spin it. Gene Fullmer got the better of Sugar Ray Robinson in 4 meetings, does this mean Fullmer should be rated over Robinson at 160lb? Why is it unfair? Pep Beat Saddler despite being past his prime Pep has the big edge in resume Pep has the huge edge in longevity Pep has the edge in dominance Pep never lost in his prime at 126lb, while Saddler did multiple times What do Jock Leslie, Paddy Demarco, Humberto Sierra, and Phil Terranova all have in common? All these men defeated Saddler, but lost to Pep.