Harold Johnson vs Hopkins

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Jan 10, 2011.


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  1. darling dame

    darling dame Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson was a real enigma!!He was a real good boxer yet pastrano outboxed him(OR SO THE OFFICIAL TALLY SAID SO)hE HAD A GOOD KO %, But he wasnt a TRUE ko artist!!He was alwaays mentioned as a challanger for HEA. title, yet never fought Floyd ,Sonny ,or Ali for title.Also never beat a TOP TOP heavy,&was kod by so so Mederos!!Hop better at middle for sure. Talk of Johnson susceptial to rights but Hop no true hard hitter with right.This a toughie to call.
     
    darling dame, Jan 15, 2011
    darling dame, Jan 15, 2011
    #31
  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Can't see how Pastrano got that decision.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    #32
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnson is without a doubt the most proven LHW of the two, but Hopkins looked extremely comfortable with those extra 15 lbs even at 40. Makes you wonder what he could have achieved as a LHW had he moved up half a decade earlier. (Of course, had he bumped into Roy again it would have been another spanking:D)
     
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    #33
  4. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    I can. Pastrano had a pretty bad style for him.

    He was comfortable with it, but any good Middleweight would have been comfortable at LHW against Antonio Tarver, Joe Calzaghe and Jean Pascal.
     
    GPater11093, Jan 15, 2011
    GPater11093, Jan 15, 2011
    #34
  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For me, bouncing around without landing much doesn't win you fights.

    True. It's just that his movement against Tarver looked so smooth and he also looked very proportionate. He looked as he did at MW, only bigger. And it's not like he defeated much better opposition than Tarver at MW.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    #35
  6. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Either does consistently being kept off balance and unable to get going.

    I suppose you are right. I still don't think he can beat Johnson at Light-Heavyweight though.
     
    GPater11093, Jan 15, 2011
    GPater11093, Jan 15, 2011
    #36
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He wasn't kept off balance. He had difficulty getting off his punches, but I still thought he clearly outscored Pastrano with clean punches. Pastrano used up more energy in achieving less. How that's a win is beyond me.

    You may well be right. Do think it's a shame that Hopkins didn't make the move up sooner, though.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    #37
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Define good? I think for the MW would need to gain size as Hopkins did and for 2 they'd have to be pretty good, especially to beat Calzaghe who H2H is great despite some technical flaws
     
    PowerPuncher, Jan 15, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Jan 15, 2011
    #38
  9. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    yeah, it did take and would take a special middleweight to do what he did

    i rate hagler much higher as a middleweight than hopkins but i don't think he could duplicate his feat
     
    Jorodz, Jan 15, 2011
    Jorodz, Jan 15, 2011
    #39
  10. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    And why was that?

    Yeh, a bit.

    By good I mean, Hopkins class. I still think any top 10 Middleweight would beat them guys, Joe would be by far the hardest though.
     
    GPater11093, Jan 15, 2011
    GPater11093, Jan 15, 2011
    #40
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    'Cause Pastrano moved well. But you have to do more than not getting hit too frequently to win, you have to land yourself also. Johnson landed more while expending less energy. In other words he had the eddge in both clean punches landed and ring generalship (and effective aggression by default, since Pastrano showed no aggression what so ever) and therefore he should have won.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    Bokaj, Jan 15, 2011
    #41
  12. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    So we are agreed that Pastrano's movement kept Johnson from opening up?

    So could it not be said that Pastrano's movement was keeping Johnson off-balance, so keeping him from getting off?

    It has been a while since I seen it, but I felt Pastrano was in controll as he kept Johnson off balance and used a consistent jab. Although Johnson landed the harder countershots I don't think he took enough rounds.

    Also I don't think a fighter can be an effective aggressor by default. You have to actually have effective aggression IMO and Johnson's aggression wasn't that effective.

    I still think Pastrano is a very bad style for Johnson though, especially an older one.
     
    GPater11093, Jan 16, 2011
    GPater11093, Jan 16, 2011
    #42
  13. abraq

    abraq Active Member Full Member

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    This would be a very good fight. P4p, B'Hop was the better fighter. But Harold Johnson was the naturally bigger man (I am not talking about only height here). IMO, both were equal technicians but Hopkins was more innovative. Would this be enough? Or, could Johnson use his naturally slightly bigger size to offset this?

    I don't know. I don't mind Harold Johnson winning. But, as many here has intelligently pointed out, Bernard Hopkins might just do what is necessary to take this one. But one thing I know is that this one is going to be a very, very close fight.
     
    abraq, Jan 17, 2011
    abraq, Jan 17, 2011
    #43
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, Pastrano's movement just didn't give him many openings. It's not like he overreached and looked clumsy as Liston did at times against Clay. You can have perfect balance, but still find it hard to find opening against a fast moving target.

    Johnson stayed in the centre of the ring without exposing himself by overreaching, he just had a hard time keeping up with a younger, faster fighter.

    It's always hard to see clearly on such footage, but to me it seemed that Johnson actually landed more jabs than Pastrano. He also started to land with solid shots in the later rounds.

    Sure, strike that category altogether then. Johnson still had the remaining two imo.

    Yeah, always hard to fight someone with speed and skill, especially when you're old and slowing down. But still think Johnson got the more solid work done, which shows just how good he was.
     
    Bokaj, Jan 17, 2011
    Bokaj, Jan 17, 2011
    #44
  15. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Did no one show you how to add a poll? I skimmed but I didn't see anybody say it. Upper right of your original post, click thread tools there and a menu pops up with the option to add a poll.
     
    Boxed Ears, Jan 17, 2011
    Boxed Ears, Jan 17, 2011
    #45
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