Has time been unkind to Smokin' Joe?

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After beating Ali in 1970 Frazier defends in Jan 1972 against unranked Terry Daniels,
After losing to Frazier Ali beats Jimmy Ellis no 3 ,inJul 1971,Buster Mathis[top 20]nov71,Jurgen BlinGerman Champ Dec 71,all were stoppage wins.
In1972 Frazier defends against unranked Ron Stander.
In 1972 Ali beats Mac Foster[top 20]Chuvalo[top 20],Jerry Quarry top10],Al Blue lewis[top20]Floyd Patterson [top 20] Bob Foster lh Champ.
History unkind to Joe Frazier? History has been overly generous to Frazier imo.

 

I agree, Leotis was sonnys former sparring partner, but Leotis was a good young contender who packed a dreadful punch and had a future ahead of him. liston essentially ruined his career despite losing the fight.

Mcvey, do you think fraziers management ducked mac foster, sonny liston, thad spencer, leotis martin, ernie terrell, ron lyle, earnie shavers?

 

Well he never fought them did he?I think Durham did a very good job with Joe ,but was caught asleep by Foreman ,in truth George looked very raw and clumsy we knew he could hit but most people thought Frazier would get under his looping shots and go to work,didnt reckon on that uppercut.Janitor makes the case that many of the names here were exposed as being less than they seemed but thats with hind sight,I think Durham steered Frazier away from Liston,Foster,and probably Martin and Lyle,throw in Shavers ,thats a lot of punches Joe somehow didnt get around to meeting.the Frazier fans on here wont have it but his legacy is pretty thin imo.A prime Sonny had too many tools for Joe imo,he could out box him and out punch him,Frazier wore you down,Liston busted you up and hurt you bad.

 

You make a really good point, McVey. Frazier was obviously carefully managed, not quite as carefully as Foreman, but still.

It seems pretty reasonable to say that Liston, Mac Foster, Lyle, Shavers and Foreman was the biggest punchers while Joe was around, and of them he only took on Foreman, with known result. That does raise questions.

 

One forgets he had diminished sight in his right eye, which was why his corner stopped the fight in Manila, he was shut eyed in one eye and near blind in the other.
That too is why he threw his right less and less as time went by.

 

People also tend to forget that his biggest win was over a man who had been out for three and a half years and had 18 rds of competiton in 4 years, they also fail to mention that he was never able to duplicate this feat in two other fights.

 

Second fight had a lousey ref, that allowed Ali to get away with stuff.

Had Forman not lucky punched Moore, he'd not be well rated today.
That Mathis Frazier fight was a hell of a good fight.

At least Joe kept all his money.
Joe also haelped Ali out with money during Ali's "exile".

 

That sounds like a lot of bad excuses to me. Ali was the better fighter in the second fight, end of story. And what has money and him being generous to Ali to do with his pro record?

Personally, I rate Frazier highly, but there are some important names missing from his record. Being so clearly dominated by Foreman doesn't help either. Those are all good reasons to why he doesn't belong among the top 5 greatest heavyweights. I would probably place him at nr. 8.

 

Mathis wasnt rated in the top ten by the Ring when he fought Frazier neither did the fight get recognition from 90% of the states ,or the European Union or the BBBOC in England ,who issued a statement "We do not consider Buster Mathis a suitable opponent".