Has Usyk already surpassed Loma?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by jmashyaka, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He chose Vargas because the WBO had messed him around. I’m sure if Loma had said he wanted that fight Berchelt would have taken it.
     
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  2. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sorry I meant Loma had the Luxury not Usyk, change their names and you will see you are agreeing with me.
     
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  3. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    P4P is all 'fantasy'.

    If Lomachenko weighed the same as Usyk would he beat him?

    No - he's too short.



    Errol Spence, one of my top 3 favorite to watch current fighters in the sport, is currently ranked number 8 in the P4P rankings.

    How?

    He has fought 1 opponent at World Level - Brook.

    Was Brook considered top 10 P4P? No......So how was the victory, against a guy coming off a loss and bad injury, so impressive he's considered the 8th best boxer in the world?


    I don't rate Ortiz highly, and I certainly don't rate Wilder....But Deontay has one win at World level, just like Spence, but more defences too.....He should therefore be higher.






    P4P is basically a way for the sport to promote the little guys.

    Lomachenko is incredible to watch, he's actually in my top 3 too.......
    But you bulk him up to 280 pounds and put him in with Jarrell Miller, he won't dance around him like he did to top guys like Linares/Rigondeaux etc.


    P4P is purely opinion.
     
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  4. The Akbar One

    The Akbar One Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Loma is still above Usyk. Usyk winning a tournament in thick division is something that Lomachenko has never achieved, but beating Russell Jr., and moving up in weight to beat Linares, are better wins than Breidis, and cruiserweight Arthur Abraham.
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    I think Usyk has surpassed Loma yeah.

    It will be interesting to see how the fans of each guy butt heads.

    Usyk is the most compete 200 pound fighter we've ever seen.

    Lomachenko doesn't have a deep enough resume to be considered the best ever in any division.
     
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  6. LANCE99

    LANCE99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is why P4P discussions are essentially pointless. Sure they are fun, but ultimately, they mean nothing in the real boxing world.
     
  7. LANCE99

    LANCE99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Perfectly stated. A P4P fight between Loma and Ward would never make sense, because their physical attributes determine their level of athleticism, and skill to an extent. We can't pretend Loma at 168 would fight just like Loma at 130. Same goes w/ making bigger guys smaller. It would change them as fighters.
     
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  8. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    It assumes that the smaller guy stepping up keeps his strengths.
    But doesn't take into account that the height and weight of a big man like Joshua, is the reason why he doesn't have the terrfic footwork and movement of a smaller guy like Lomachenko.

    I remember an interview with Lennox Lewis who almost gave boxing up the very first session he had in a gym because they put him in there with a smaller guy, and Lennox couldn't land on him, instead he got beat up.
    The next day he went back, got put in with a guy the same size, and the rest is History.
     
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  9. VERY FEEL

    VERY FEEL I am FEEL banned Full Member

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    The only thing separating them is Loma is more known by USA fans and has been way more on USA TV.
    We know how ignorant fans from there can be.
     
  10. KiwiMan

    KiwiMan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Briedis beat current HW world champion Charr by brutal KO, you can't mention the ugly Perez fight (which Briedis won easily enough) without also mentioning that one.
     
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  11. KiwiMan

    KiwiMan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's a difficult question. Is clearing out a division better than winning world titles in multiple weight classes? It should be noted that a number of the champions ducked Loma which is why he couldn't clear out any division so far.

    I guess it probably comes to a comparison of resume:

    Usyk:
    Gassiev (dominant), Briedis (close), Glowacki (moderately dominant), Huck (dominant), Hunter (moderately dominant)

    Loma:
    Linares (close), GRJ (dominant), Walters (dominant), Rigo (dominant), Sosa (dominant), Martinez (dominant).

    I'd say Lomachenko has the deeper resume and would have been able to clear out featherweight or superfeatherweight if he had the chance. On the other hand he has a loss and Usyk dominated Gassiev far more clearly than Loma over Linares. So for me they are very close, but if I have to choose it's still Loma by a hair.
     
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  12. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    I agree, look at Ward at Supermiddle compared to Ward at Lightheavy, Ward at Lightheavy uses knock out blows in pubic regions, while Ward at Suppermiddle is all about that head butt. Different styles for different weights.
     
  13. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You are forgetting the salido loss. Usyk hasn’t lost in the pro ranks.
     
  14. KiwiMan

    KiwiMan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I did mention that actually. It's not quite enough to tip the balance for me, but I can see why it might do so for others.
     
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  15. VERY FEEL

    VERY FEEL I am FEEL banned Full Member

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    I would rank their 6 best wins each in this order.

    Usyk - Gassiev (in Russia)
    Usyk - Breidis ( in Latvia)
    Lomachenko - Linares
    Lomachenko - Russell Jr (in USA)
    Lomachenko - Rigondeaux
    Lomachenko -Walters
    Usyk - Glowacki (in Poland)
    Lomachenko - Martinez
    Usyk - Huck ( in Germany)
    Lomachenko -Sosa ( in USA)
    Usyk -Hunter (in USA)
    Usyk - Mchunu ( inUSA)