Haye vs. Ali: Make a convincing case for Haye

Fair enough, Cross. It would be a boring site if people didn't!

 

Haye=can't fight his way out of a paper bag. Horrible fighter.

 

HOUDINI, if Doug Jones , Joe Frazier & Henry Cooper did to Ali what they did , a bigger , stronger, faster , smarter David Haye could have beaten him. Happy to make your life harder. Die already.

 

Well by the same token if a over the hill and mediocre Carl Thompson can stop
Haye and a super middleweight Lolenga Mock can put Haye on his backside, what would Ali do to him?

 

Haye woz still not in hiz prime in terms of experienc vs Thompson , & most probably w8 dreind (faiting insaid d 190 lbs limit) . Thompson (himself) iz olso ander8ed BTW .

 

I agree Haye not being in his prime but the same could be said of Ali against Jones and Cooper. Against a prime Frazier he was coming of a near 4 year layoff.

 

Vs Frazier hi woz kaming off e gud sparing seshen vs Bonavena so remuv det eror .
End @ list Ali woz not dreind vs Cooper & Jones , end 2 him it hepend twaic , ez opowzd 2 wanc 4 Haye . Olso Haye got no gifts from de jajes end did not get de benefits of e kriminal corner man .

 

I agree to an extent but Ali threw a load of those fundamentals out of the window.
Also are today's fighters better condition wise and technically than Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, Duran,Benitez, Pryor and Arguello from the eighties?

 

Still faced Frazier after just 2 fights in 4 years.
Against Jones and particularly Cooper he was young, brash and clowned around a lot.
I notice you don't mention he took the blows of Foreman, Liston, Shavers and Lyle without being put on the floor once.
Dundee gained him 5 seconds against Cooper watch the footage and count it out.
I like Haye but he really shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Ali.

 

They train today for 12 rounders rather than 15, which skews the results.

With that being said, I would claim that modern fighters have more "stamina" than traditionally trained 12 round fighters in a very specific sense: their punches are, on average, more powerful over the course of 12 rounds. More damage inflicted for the same level of exhaustion.

 

Well I would certainly need to be convinced of that.

 

We don't have any power measurement devices in the ring, so it would be very difficult to prove it. Especially since Hearns, Duran, et al have been inactive for decades. We do have the studies showing that training a certain way is better for building power and improving energy system performance, though. Not to mention the widespread adoption of more modernized training methods among professional boxers.

 

One thing I will say about mid-60s to mid-70s heavyweights: they were a pretty mobile lot. Even the sluggers like Mac Foster had a spring in their steps. See, e.g., the Quarry fight.

Some modern fans think that the extra bounce was a waste of energy, but it has a couple major advantages. You can initiate movement faster, since you're already in motion. It also disguises your movement to a degree -- constant slight shifting makes it harder to read and time you. That's why you can see it in everything from Tae Kwon Do to point karate to boxing.

In that light, the long slow runs and constant jumprope training make a lot of sense.

 

Stil hi woz not rasty ez u cleimd him 2b , end in fact it ivend end mor dan ivend Frazier's 2 yrs eij adventej over him .

Hi woz stil de biger men vs bows , end vs Cooper olso de fresher men bay far .

Did hi iven teik 1 panch from Liston or Lyle ? de 4man end Liston faits , end probably de Lyle fait ez wel if not ol of hiz faits shud not b menshend ez exampel 2 enising ez dey wer fixt in mor dan 1 wei .

A lie. And even if it iz tru it woz stil critical 4 hiz recupereishen end survaival in det fait .

Ali shud not b menshend elong ril faiters sach ez David Haye .
Ali woz e mer lower tier TV star , de brawn Miley Cirus if u wont .