Hearns, Hagler, Leonard or Duran?

Ray in 1991 was 10 years from his prime. When prime I mean a guy who was active. Ray would have stopped Terry in his prime, no competition in skills or speed. But if you want to think that Ray Leonard in 1991 was the real Leonard of 1981 then that is up to you. Terry was a good fighter but no way ATG but probably HOF, but no where near Leonard in ranking. Leonard would have never been knocked down with a jab by Simon Brown. Ray took Thomas Hearns jab over and over again. Terry never fought the guys Ray fought. Hearns would have stopped Terry in one or two rounds similar to the Jackson fight. Meldrick Taylor was too high in weight and that fight was unfair, and Curry was way past his prime. Mugabi was not prime at all either. When Terry fought prime good fighters his chin usually failed.

 

Ray adjusted to adversity better than any fighter in history. By the time he fought Norris he was past him prime and flat as a fighter. I am surprised you actually rate Ray on a fight when he was washed up. If you do that with all fighters no one will be great and you can manufacture the ratings to benefit your favorite fighters. I think the Hearns fight of 1989, it took a lot out of Ray. He went to the hospital after that fight. Norris was good but you are overrating a guy who really was knocked out whenever he fought a prime strong guy. The key to Jackson was power. There was not that much of a secret to it. He had tremendous power. Julian would be being beaten up a little and his opponent would be having an easy enough time hitting him, then he was in the Jackson range and boom. Incredible power. The fight with Terry was not competitive. Jackson stopped him cold. The only man who was good enough to overcome that was McCallum. Terry was no McCallum. McCallum was all time great, and Terry was not.

 

What a crock.....

 

Duran
Hearns
Hagler
Leonard

 

There were six years between Norris and Camacho. Leonard had not been in the ring for all those years and was facing an excellent technician who was regularly competing. Leonard was, what? 41 years old?

When Leonard faced Norris he was coming off a fight with Duran in which he won every round. He was fit as a fiddle. Unlike such trench fighters as Hagler, Leonard did not suffer a lot of wear and tear. You can't excuse the Norris performance by referencing the Camacho performance. Norris deserves credit for handing Leonard's ass to him. It was an amazing performance. My only problem with the fight is that Norris let up in the later rounds apparently out of respect.

Norris is an underrated fighter. He had quality wins over John Mugabi, Meldrick Taylor, Donald Curry, Maurice Blocker, Simon Brown, and some others. His great flaw was his chin and lapses in concentration. But this is all the more reason why Leonard should have looked better against Norris - if Leonard was as great as his fans claim. You can tell the Norris fight drives Leonard fans crazy by the way they are so quick to excuse it.

Leonard did not make "bumbling amatuer southpaw foot in the bucket plodder he was." Your description of Hagler - "he cannot box a lick" - is so off the mark that we can say with confidence that you don't know the sport. Hagler won that fight against Leonard despite Hagler's diminished skill (over almost 70 fights, many of them conducted in the trenches with the toughest middleweights around). I am the first to admit that Leonard looked impressive against Hagler and that Hagler looked old. But, as with fight with Hearns and the rematch with Duran, Leonard can thank circumstances and not skill for the win.

 

You have a point here. But even if Leonard wasn't shot, he was clearly past his best and fighting at a weight class above his natural one. Duran, for example, has several losses at an similar age, so it's not a terribly big deal. But a very good win for Norris, nonetheless.

 

Just a bunch of Hagler fan excuses. Leonard could see it, and so could anyone who knew boxing. Leonard was a league above Hagler in the boxing skills department. Hagler could not box a lick!! Just watch his fights. Hagler was always slow and plodding......always....

 

not better than jackson i'm afraid because while Terry left Jackson in the dust for the entire first round, JJ regrouped beautifully in round two and took care of his man. Leonard on the other hand, tried to emulate the formula for success used by Jackson and couldnt do it.

Jackson succeeded. Leonard failed. Jackson showed he knew how to deal with adversity (Norris) while leonard struggled and could not.

It's a fact

And please dont tell me Leonard had nothing left. The FILMS do not support your claims.

In the Hagler fight we saw the same footwork and the combinations. We saw the combinations in the lalonde and Hearns fight. And in uno mas, Tim Ryan congradulated Ray telling him, "what an absolutely masterful performance!"

Not a mark on him except for a little cut above the eye. Did he resemble Joe Louis from the Marciano fight? He more cloesly resembled Roy Jones Jr.

In fact, Steve Farhood made the claim that he fought the perfect fight and we all know you cant fight the perfect fight if the fighter is washed up. You just told me that ray was washed up but he cant be with these kinds of rave reviews. Not only that but he was winning, for 11 years in fact. And also, he hadnt lost a fight in 11 years and had won five champioships. How can he be washed up?

I think you are embarrassed to admit Norris was the better man.

Now dont get me wrong. Ray Leonard is truly one of the greats. Just a few nights ago some friends of mine were reminiscing over the right hand that ruined the legs of Tommy Hearns. I even have him proudly placed in my top 50of all time. Is he in the same class as Terry Norris? Probably not. A few more high profile wins over the new crop of the 80s stars would have have sealed the deal for me. Sadly, those wins are missing.

 

I dont see an extra pounds as being a real problem. he'd been at a weight of 153 1/4 since 1979. It shouldnt have been responsible for the way he was blown out by Norris. The speed of Norris was responsible for that.