Herol Graham vs. James Toney at MW

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KOTF, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. KOTF

    KOTF Bingooo Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    13,448
    Likes Received:
    29
    Who takes it?
     
  2. emallini

    emallini Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    11,274
    Likes Received:
    2,540
    This is a interesting Fight. Graham was a Nightmare to fight but the Middlweight Toney was a True Beast. Toney Preferred Fighters coming to him so he could counter and punish there mistakes but herol would be on his bike trying to nick rounds so I can see Toney having a Problem catching up with him but with that being said Toney could still fight as a pressure fighter and his defensive roll was still intact when he did so. I see a similar fight to Graham-Mccallum with Toney having early trouble but timing Graham as it goes on to win a clear decision. He would Look bad though.
     
  3. FIN

    FIN Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,865
    Likes Received:
    1
    Two great fighters,i would go with Toney by split decision,herol would make him look bad though..
     
  4. horst

    horst Guest

    Graham had a style that James would find difficult for more than a couple of rounds, but Toney had good power at middleweight, and eventually he would land the decisive shot, and finish Bomber off soon after. Toney KO10.
     
  5. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    46,399
    Likes Received:
    15
    I'd say this is a hard fight to assess.

    Toney might be the most overrated fighter of the modern era, the way people rate him so highly in H2H matches always throws me a bit.

    Graham was an awkward fighter with brilliant defence, footwork... punches from all over the place and reasonable accumulative power. His chin was decent as well.

    I'd say Toney JUST does enough but looks **** doing it.
     
  6. horst

    horst Guest

    Thoroughly, thoroughly ridiculous comment.
     
  7. Dave's Top Ten

    Dave's Top Ten Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    35
    I agree with a lot of this. Toney was a damn good fighter, but he does get overrated, because of the fact that he has managed to balloon his weight and stay in there with some mediocre heavyweights. Toney would KO him late, pretty even on the scorecards
     
  8. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    46,399
    Likes Received:
    15
    Me saying that someone is overrated doesn't mean I think they are crap, far from it.

    Toney was obviously a very good fighter with a lot of attributes, but the depth in his career simply isn't there. He beat a few of the leading middles/super middles of his era - but Benn had already beaten DeWitt and Barkley.... Jones toyed with him.

    After that he clowned about with various miscellaneous opponents barring Griffin and McCallum (going 1-2 in the process) for phoney WBU titles before beating Jirov impressively at 190.

    As for his career at heavyweight, he stopped a 40 year old Holyfield.... after that there's not a right lot, the win against Ruiz for which he cheated, a draw against Rahman (plus a win that he was robbed of) and two clear losses to fat ass Sam Peter.

    Other than chatter there's been very little of note in years.
     
  9. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    24,518
    Likes Received:
    10,396
    Toney stops him late. Graham doesnt have the strength, or chin to deal with JT down the stretch. He's not Roy. He's not Nunn either.
     
  10. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,305
    Likes Received:
    553
    Graham was a very strong big middle imo.I think his strength was one of his best attributes.That said, he used it more for fouling and manipulating other fighters balance with spins and illegal throws, rather than for pushing you back and setting his offense up like a roldan would.

    I think if he got knocked out it would be more down to his lack of power or Toney figuring out those risky defensive moves/flaws and setting traps to take advantage, like kalambay did when he almost knocked Graham out in the last round of their first fight with a sneaky right hand counter.
     
  11. laxpdx

    laxpdx Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,931
    Likes Received:
    82
    Graham outboxes Toney the first part of the fight, but over time James turns up the heat and eventually wears Herol down, and then it's Lights Out.
     
  12. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    14,678
    Likes Received:
    186
    graham would make toney look bad and it would be a fight that could well end in a split decision for either fighter, and toney is overated slightly
     
  13. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    42,723
    Likes Received:
    279
    The main Toney was and is rated so highly is because of the McCallum and Nunn wins at MW. Both top P4P boxers, great MWs and nightmare styles. That and the fact he'd fight anyone at 160-168 in the toughest MW era we've seen. The other wins are quality enriching wins, but not great 1s, but most fighters have few great wins.

    The fact you said '2 clear losses to Sam Peter', tells me you didnt see their first fight

    As for this match up, its another tricky style, I think Toney gets to time/counter and walk Graham down at stages on the way to a close UD or late KO
     
  14. Boro chris

    Boro chris Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    10,275
    Likes Received:
    21
    :huh Not at all. I'm often mystified by the reverence Toney gets. Mind you I'm occasionaly guilty of it as well with Graham and Conteh.

    I feel Toney lost both of his fights to Mccallum (especially the 2nd fight which was a robbery imo), the Nunn fight is his best win and that was a very tough win for him. Still dosen't mean I dont rate him as a fighter however.
    SD either way and deciding factir could be where the fight is staged.
     
  15. horst

    horst Guest

    If you somehow managed to score the 1st Toney-McCallum fight for the Bodysnatcher, then I'm not even going to try and reason with you.