Herol Graham vs. Sugar Ray Leonard at MW

Leonard wins a close decision,Leonard almost always knew how to how to close the show or clinch the fight when things got rough, part of what makes him one of the greatest ever on a late surge almost stopping Graham and taking a decision 115-113

 

You sound like Red Rooster, and making Duran look bad by degrading Leonard.


By the way Duran is also my favorite fighter of all time.

 

He ain't like Rooster. Just goes extreme sometimes He knows how good Leonard was, and knows his ****. He ain't deluded like Rooster, if you speak to Duranimal seriously you'll see he really knows his stuff:good

 

I'm afraid Leonard is a bit out of his element here. He's a natural WW up against a slick and skilled MW. Ray will have his moments, but ultimately come up short in the form of a UD/SD.

 

Thats how i see this fight going, Herol Graham was a master slickster & Leonard would never have got near him + add on the obvious fact of his age & weight verses a natural middlweight who was a defensive genious.

Why on earth do you think Leonard stayed retired after the Howard debacle, he said himself that he was embarrased, it ai'nt there no more, he could'nt compete at that higher weight against the upcoming young guns, Leonards no fool, he's a master stratagist & he knew how to go about making himself & Hearns/Duran/Hagler a pile of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ & it was'nt hanging around to get himself humiliated at the hands of Curry/Mc Crory/McCallum/Nunn/Tate ect ect for chump change.

Ray could never compete with any genuine Lt/Middle + ranked fighter after the 84 Howard humiliation & he knew it, it's a biz after all & Rays always been a sharpie when it comes too the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's pure loonie tunes to even think that leonard would have stood any chance against younger/faster/bigger men at 160. He hand picked an old Hagler/Hearns/Duran & when he hand picked Howard he got the shock of his life never mind Norris who flayed him over 12 rounds.

Leonard would never have had a long career even at 147, he was easy to hit & once his countering speed diminished then he was done.

 

Great avi:good

 

Yey he does have knowledge, ive heard him before but i sense a dislike for Leonard which i think tainted that post.
Actua%llly Leonard was always one of those guys i rooted against in his prime, but came around to being a fan at the end. Now he is one of my favs.

To tell the truth Rooster is knowledgeable he just likes to get a reaction out of people on the Classic He does have a good sense of fighters from the 70s 80s he just likes reaction and is a fanboy I do the same **** to some people on the Lounge forum on bull**** topics.
However what i say on the General and Classic im not trying to get reaction, im saying what i truly believe about 95% of the time.

 

Well the Leonard im anaylizing here isnt the one that Norris fought, Graham would definetly beat that version, im going off the one who fought Hagler and, yey he was past his prime but he was still a great fighter and had all the tricks in the bag to get him past a very good,but not great fighter in Graham, He was still pretty fast and still had decent power even at the higher weights.
He didnt truly diminish all the way until after Lalonde.......I mean he wasnt the same as in his prime when he fought Hagler,Hearns,Duran, Lalonde but i feel he still had enough to pull out a win over Graham, not necesarilly on skills but Leonard seemed to always have those clutch type of performances when things got tough. Probably one of the best clutch fighters of all time, and thats what he would do against Graham.

By the way Mccory and Tate would have got whupped by the Leonard I was talking about earlier. Mccallum even money. Nunn would have beat him. And Leonard would have beaten the post Honeyghan version of Curry.



Like your AVi! Use to have that poster im afraid its hiding in a box somewhere in my garage.

 

I'd go as far to say that the welterweight Leonard who bet Ayub Kalule would of beat the middleweight Graham and that's not because I don't rate Graham.
We are talking about both these fighters at their respective peaks aren't we?

 

...and yet Duran beats Robinson at WW

 

...and yet Duran beats Robinson at welterweight.

 

It's the style match up here that is Leonards problem, the Leonard tactics against Hagler were to leg it & survive & have an ageing Hagler come trundling after him, against someone like Herol who is faster & slicker defensively than a 160 Leonard who wanted his opponants to come to him so he could slip their leads & unload those blistering combo's which were a combined defence/offence. Herol would'nt oblige, not till the later part of the fight when Leonard is tiring & flat footed then Herol may have gone for the kill.

But Ray never had any of that at after 84, he fought an old slow Hagler in spurts, against Herol it would be up to Leonard to innitiate & attempt to walk Herol down & that would see Ray getting popped & often, i could'nt see Ray hitting Herol with a bag of rice. I agree that Leonard still carried good power but this ai'nt a one legged/one armed weight drained mediocre stationary Lt/Heavy in LaLonde or an ageing Tommy Hearns + Herol also carried a good arsenal of his own.

Leonards speed of counter was always his best weapon & he'd have to play possum against Herol in the hope that he could catch him with one KO shot otherwise i just see Leonard being picked apart by the much younger/faster man (especially someone as elusive as Herol) after about 8 rounds.

I'am not questioning Leonards ability or his guts, he was a mean nasty ****er & one of the all time greats when it came to finishing an opponant, who'll ever forget that 13th round bombardment he laid on Hearns in 81, one of the greatest ever, that showed what he was all about, but that was at 147.

I just can't for the life of me see him succeding here, i just can't see what tactics he could employ at 160 that could neutralise a fighter with the defensive skills/speed & sublime foot movement that Herol a natural 160 pounder possesed.

If only Hagler had just ran Leonard down in those first 4 rounds & made him fight instead of poncing about then Leonard would have been gassed out after 7 rounds & KO'd. he could'nt keep it up for the full 3 minutes without talking a walk.

Leonard at 160 in 87/88 gets KO'd by Tate/Nunn/McCallum/Sibbo & co, Ray would'nt be able to take the power of any of the 160's back then, he could be dropped & the young guns would have wiped him out in short order IMO.

Go dig in yer garage for that Chavez/Taylor poster & see what condition it's in, as i collect them so may feed yer some good old yankee green blood:hey