The best version of either fighter. My only point in this is I'd you feel Holy becomes too strong because he is allowed to bulk up, you should allow Dempsey the same opportunity.
The style I think he'd have most success with is Willard. Boxing from range until an opening is presented. But I don't see him using that style against a man the same size as he. I think he has the attributes needed to out speed Holy but unless he thinks he's gonna get knocked out, I see him going gung ho as he did vs Firpo, and as Holy did vs Bowe. I think style goes out the window in this one. I think it's a war and a shootout.
You can bulk them however you want but Holyfield is still going to be the bigger man. His lowest weight in a HW World Title fight was 205 Lbs. (1st Bowe fight, age 30, November of 1992). His highest weight in a HW World Title fight was 221 Lbs. (1st Ruiz fight, age 37 almost 38, August of 2000). He looked great in his 2nd fight with Bowe. I think he underestimated Bowe in their first fight and was actually losing interest in the sport at the time due to the inability to make a fight with Tyson become a reality. He was motivated in the rematch vs. Bowe and probably should have retired after his win over Bowe... but we would have never seen him fight Tyson 3 years later. He was a ripped 217 Lbs. in the 2nd Bowe fight. He had weighed 212 Lbs. vs. Stewart in November of 1989. He had weighed 208 Lbs. vs. Foreman in October of 1990. He was a bigger man than Dempsey. 6' 2 1/2" with a 77 1/2" reach. Huge neck, big chest, big shoulders, wide across the back and chest, big arms. Jack Dempsey was 6'1" with a 77" reach and about 190 Lbs. Ok, size ain't everything. Both men were blood and guts warriors, no doubt. The big men Dempsey faced weren't much compared to the big men Holyfield faced. Holyfield beat Hall of Famers Qawi x2, DeLeon, Foreman, Holmes, Bowe, and Tyson x2. He drew with Hall of Famer Lennox Lewis. 8-3-1 (3) vs. Hall of Famers. He beat more Lineal HW Champs than anyone (7)... he beat Douglas, Foreman, Holmes, Bowe, Moorer, Tyson x2, and Rahman. He also beat Ocasio, Parkey, Tillman, Thomas, Dokes, Rodrigues, Cooper, Mercer, Bean, and Oquendo among others. At age 30 he was 28-0 (22) overall, 10-0 (7) in World Title fights, a 2 weight division World Champ, and 5-0 (2) vs. Hall of Famers. Dempsey beat Lineal HW World Champs and Hall of Famers Willard and Sharkey. He also beat Jim Flynn 1 out of 2, he went 1-2-2 vs. Willie Meehan, he beat Gunboat Smith, Carl Morris, Homer Smith, Bill Brennan, Billy Miske, Fred Fulton, Battling Levinsky, Georges Carpentier (LHW Champ and Hall of Famer), Tommy Gibbons, and Luis Firpo. He lost to Lineal HW Champ and Hall of Famer Gene Tunney x2. I think Holyfield would test the waters early and the first couple of rounds would be fantastic. I think Dempsey will prove to be stronger than expected and by round 3 Holyfield would start using his jab more (he had a decent one when he wasn't fighting 250 Lb. guys with 80" + reaches) and sticking and moving more. At times it will be a war but Holyfield had the skill to outbox Dempsey as well. In the end it is a great fight and Holyfield wins by decision... maybe even by late round TKO.
He was 205 vs. Bowe in November of 1992, this was his lowest weight in a HW World Title fight. He had weighed 212 vs. Stewart in November of 1989. He was 217 vs. Bowe in November of 1993 and 213 vs. Bowe in November of 1995. He weighed 215 when he beat Tyson in November of 1996... just 3 more Lbs. than when he fought Stewart 7 years earlier and 2 Lbs. less than when he fought Bowe 3 years earlier. This whole "he kept bulking up" argument doesn't hold water in my opinion.
I see Dempsey unraveling after a few rounds. Holyfield will counter and wait while Dempsey goes through a few rounds of spastic bobbing and weaving, accomplishing little, then winds down and is a sitting duck. Holyfield KO8
Say no more. Any HW without either big KO power or a cast iron chin liking to "mix it up" with Dempsey would be asking for a trip to the canvas. That said, Holy was himself a great, and this match is by no means one way traffic. 60-40 ish in favour of Dempsey I would say. Maybe 55-45 ... haven't really thought about it too hard.
That's a good ana lysis. IF Holy could keep it together and box, he could take this. But too often against the smaller guys (thinking Czyz here) he wanted to brawl and I think it would be his undoing against Dempsey. I keep thinking back to the Czyz fight and his trainer telling him "stop loading up. what you loading up for?" and Holy going "I know, I know" ... and going out and doing the exact same thing :huh
If Holy fights the way he did against Bowe 1 I say he gets knocked out. In fact if he fights re way he did against Tyson he gets knocked out. If he fights the way he did against Bowe 2 or Lewis 2 I see him winning this. In a realistic situation he'd probably lose the first and take every fight there on imo. Holy has too many tools and strategies even if he did like to mix it up at times. But with the right gameplan he should be able to out box Dempsey from range.
That's a good comment, more or less what I believe. He'd brawl in the first match, lose, and after he realises he's dealing with a handgrenade, fall back on his boxing and win.
If a prime Dempsey fought today, with all the modern muscle building supplements fighters have these days Jack Dempsey would weigh as much as Holyfield who after leaving the LH division, "muscled" up to heavyweight weight... Irregardless of their weights I have Dempsey koing the tough and brave Evander who is one of my modern heavyweight favorites along with Joe Frazier...Why do I choose Dempsey ? Speed, speed and speed...Truly all of the boxing experts who saw Dempsey pre Tunney 3 year layoff, and called him the great HWT they had seen up to modern boxing, were not just blowing smoke.. I read boxing history ardently and then make my own decision based on what I read of the past and try to picture two fighters at their peaks together.. Evander was a brave fighter but a little too slow in his movements for a Jack Dempsey in his prime...Styles make fights...
Your claiming, you read boxing history ardently?.. If you are 89yrs of age, then surely you have no need to read up on history. You would already know it all, with the exception of 1900-1940.. surely you gathered that information as a young fan, back in 1937 when you went to watch Young 18yr old Ray Robinson ?... You are very contradictory Burt. .. Do you have SKYPE ?
Try doing a sporcle quiz of all the heavyweight champs and then tell me brushing up on what you already know isn't absoloutley necessary. No names I didn't know on there, but I wouldn't have got them all. Even if the 15 minute time frame had been extended.
