Holyfield vs. Frazier

Just like Frazier wasn't letting Foreman use him as a basketball? Holyfield's punches are shorter and faster so they get their first. I don't see any evidence Frazier hit significantly harder than Holyfield. Holyfield was mixing it with bigger stronger guys than Frazier was.

 

Holyfield struggled with Cooper who was much worse than Frazier.

 

No need for testing here, neither of these great athletes failed a drug test in their entire distinguished careers.

 

Yet he dealt with Mike Tyson very comfortably. So presumably you’re going with an unmotivated Holyfield who fought a last minute replacement in Cooper against the Frazier who beat Ali?

 

Holyfield by close decision in one of the greatest fights of all time

 

He dominated and stopped Cooper but Holyfield was stunned in the 3rd when going for an early KO. Similarly Frazier was close to being knocked out against Bonavena in their first fight when he got knocked down twice. Credit to both men for surviving.

 

Tyson didn't fight similary to Frazier though.

 

Frazier was more inexperienced than Evander and Bonavena was far better than Cooper, so I don't see this comparison.

 

Of course there is Heisenberg, there is no "uncertainty principle" about which one used PEDs here. ;-)
There are many valid indications of drug use besides testing positive.
Such as athletes that never did so at all, but investigations turned up long term cheating, such as champion sprinter Marion Jones & her eventual tearful confession.

In Holyfield's case, there is far more than guilt by association with the likes of 8 time Mr. Olympia Lee Haney or rapid & dramatic increase in muscle mass. Or fairly sudden badness & heart problems coinciding with it-which would be a quite uncommon natural combination of occurrences when so young.
a summary of the evidence from different sources on Wikipedia:

Allegations of steroid and HGH use
On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that was under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal steroids and [url]human growth hormone[/url] (HGH). He denied ever using performance enhancers.[url][50][/url]

Holyfield's name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of "Evan Fields" caught investigators' attention. "Fields" shares the same birth date as Holyfield, October 19, 1962. The listed address for "Fields" was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the "Fields" prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.[url][51][/url]

On March 10, 2007, Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.[url][52][/url]

Holyfield was again linked to HGH in September 2007, when his name came up following a raid of Signature Pharmacy in Orlando, Florida.[url][53][/url] Signature Pharmacy was under investigation for illegally supplying several professional athletes with steroids and HGH.[url][54][/url]

 

Do you just believe what you want?

 

You're the one that made the point about a fight where Holy was stunned, it's still a fight he dominated, so I don't get your point. Holyfield fought down to Coopers level and Cooper's record doesn't really does his ability justice as we can see in this and the Norris fights

Frazier's defense didn't improve much after this. He still relied on taking a punch to land a punch and Quarry, Bonavena and Ellis all landed loads on him.

 

Go and watch the fight again and see for yourself. He was even taking the end of the 3rd after being out on his feet

 

I have seen the fight plenty. It's a war. No-one was dominated in that fight, and it was still competitive all the best way up until the stoppage.

 

In series Frazier wins 2/3 all them close fights

 

Holyfield better stamina than Ali? I hope it is a joke