Did you see the first round where he nearly took Thomas' head off? He thought he'd won the fight and boxed a bit untill Rooney told him after the 5th to unleash big bombs, and he did. Likewise, i can say that Williams beat the **** out of Liston during the first two rounds of their first meeting. Tyson is much faster, skilled and overal more proven. Sorry but i'm just not very impressed by Liston. Watch him finish Williams off. One clubbing punch, one clubbing punch, one clubbing punch. Tyson's combination punching and speed are from a different planet.
And just what was the Pinklon Thomas form going into that Tyson fight? Did you watch those fights and think the guy had any chance at all?
I like Tyson against Liston, Tyson was way better on his feet, better head movement and put fast combinations together better but Liston was a far bigger puncher .... I dont like Tyson or Liston against Frazier, i reckon Joe would have beaten these guys up, Frazier was a beautifully destructive inside fighter
Ah what the hell. Point: Tyson is explosive and dangerous early. Counterpoint 1: Liston's chin is Holyfield solid. Counterpoint 2: Tyson gets progressively less explosive and less dangerous as the fight progresses. The danger Liston brought could be severe but could also be monotonous, although no less dangerous. Point: Tyson is aggressive Counterpoint 1: ...but needs forward motion. Counterpoint 2: Liston is brutishly strong. Point: Tyson watched lots of rap videos and pretended to be mean. Counterpoint 1: Liston is meaner, with a heart 3 sizes too small. Counterpoint 2: Half of Tyson's adult life has been a cry for help. He just wanted to be loved. Tyson better defy probability and get Liston out early. If Liston survives and Tyson begins to lose momentum and those insecurities lurking just below the surface start to bubble up, he's going to have real problems. ...I'd favor Sonny by late stoppage.
Liston does not have Holyfield's chin. Holyfield has been tested way more thoroughly than Liston. He took punches from superheavyweights like Lewis and Bowe, not to mention from Tyson himself and was never stopped (Bowe III was not chin-related). The only one coming close to those that Liston faced is Williams (sidenote - he only managed stop one single top opponent) and he had Liston reeling, busting him up. Holyfield was never knocked down by a light heavyweight fringe contender or cruiserweight, either. And you can talk about how Tyson is not as mean as Liston, but fact is that Liston blatantly quit after a relatively light 6 rounds while he was champion. In Tyson's case, the quitting only came much later in his career when he was done anyway.
Sure he was. Bert Cooper. And Bowe III was absolutely chin-related. To be specific, Bowe caught him coming in with a left hook, right hand which dropped him. The end was a foregone one seconds later. You are correct about Holyfield being tested more than Liston, but that does not necessarily mean that Holyfield's chin is better. And so what, the point is that Liston has a solid chin. I think it is as solid as Holyfield's, you don't, but would you then argue that he wouldn't be expected to stand up to Tyson's shots? If you think that the thrashing by Clay was "light", then I don't what to tell you, except that it was anything but light. He looked liked he had a bobble-head the way Clay was pasting him. Should he have quit on his stool? No. What's your opinion of Tzsyu after Hatton? Tyson quit at age 30 against Holyfield. How old was Liston when he quit against Clay? Which had the more disgraceful surrender? Tyson performance as he approached his late 30s was far more suggestive of character flaws than Liston, who ended his career with some nobility at least.
Bowe III chin related? Holyfield was exhausted and could barely stay on his feet. Why do you think he went down for the second time after no punch landed? I haven't seen Tszyu-Hatton, but at least that was 10 rounds. Ali-Clay was 6, or actually 5, when they tried to blind Clay and had a round "off". Ali was on the backfoot for the most part of the fight, and the only time he really opened up was in round 3, when he staggered Liston. But other than that, it was nothing like for instance Tyson-Holyfield where they constantly went toe-to-toe. What do you mean Tyson quit against Holyfield? He took his beating like a man and walked to his corner asif nothing was going on after being a punching back for 20 seconds at the end of round 10. If you're talking about the rematch, i think that was "street" version of him that wanted to retaliate. At any rate, it doesn't even compare to just sitting on your stool after trying to blind your opponent didn't work. I could just as well claim that Liston quit during the rematch with Ali. Who knows? He looked terrified and thought Ali was a madman: This content is protected The first time Tyson quit he was 35, after 16 years of professional boxing. Liston was 32 and had 10 years of boxing in a style that ages well both mentally and physically, and was facing guys barely over the cruiserweight limit most of the time.
Tyson quit when he bit the Holy's ear. He wanted an out that would fit with his fake hard man image he'd cultivated... I like Liston in this one because I think he will push Tyson back and that will be the key to victory. Both men can take it and dish it out. Both men are intimidating but with psychological achilles heels. Great match up.
Nice picture. I think both of them showed mental short comings in the ring that other ATGs didn't, as for whom was weaker or stronger than the other... Hard to say really. In the end we can only guess why Liston ended both fights against Clay so disgracefully and why Tyson did the same in the rematch against Holyfield, but it's only going to be speculation. What we do know is that Tyson had the speed and combinations while Liston had the reach and the jab. Chin would go to Tyson as well I think, and that could be crucial.
Apologies for the late response... There was something wrong with Holyfield, yes, he would lose energy and could only fight in spurts in a few fights during the early to mid 90s. I really hope it wasn't the effects of steroids. However, before he was knocked down, he was coming at Bowe throwing hard shots, and Bowe caught him with a left and a right. Holyfield went down as a result of the shots. Holyfield got up and the fight continued for about 3 seconds before Bowe stopped him. Holyfield went down from a shot, and he couldn't continue because he was still hurt. Fatigue is often a factor, but it doesn't discount the fact that Bowe dented his chin. Liston's face suggested that he was getting hit hard and often. It wasn't quite the dog show that some Liston-detractors suggest. It was a surrender -lamentable yes- but it was a surrender comparable to at least a dozen of fights we've seen since where a champion quits on his stool. I don't agree in the least (though I love the picture). What 30 year old Tyson against Holyfield (II) was QUIT. It was more cowardly and more dispicable than what Liston did against Clay. Hell, it was worse than Duran's surrender in New Orleans. Tyson figured out early that he wasn't going to beat Holyfield and wanted O-U-T. First he tried to break his arm. No one saw it, but watch the first or second round and you'll see it. That didn't work, so he disgraced himself and his sport by biting a great fighter. "Street" my ass. That was a punk move. He couldn't beat Evander so he tried to get himself disqualified. Holyfield, ten times the man Tyson ever was, told Mills Lane that he wanted to continue even though a quarter of his ear was on the canvas, and what does Tyson do? Fight him like a man? No! He bites him again to ensure his disqualification! And then when the fight is called and the ring fills up with officials, he decides to try to fight Holyfield. Him and that JOKE Crocodile. I'll tell you, Teddy Atlas called that one like a prophet.
Liston tried to blind Ali and when that failed he quit on his stool in 6 rounds. I don't see how this is better than Tyson biting Holyfield in the rematch. Tyson already fought Holyfield and lost in a long and tough slugfest before losing it in the rematch. Liston simply quit on his stool after his attempt to cheat failed after 6 rounds, how does that save face where Tyson who gave it his all in the first fight with Holyfield gets **** on :huh And just so people know, these are my two favorite fighters.
We won't agree on the first points, so i'll leave them out in the air. Well, you think he was looking for a way out. Many others would agree with you. But there are also people who think it was Tyson's incontrolable furious side... when the fight was stopped, he was still swinging at police officers around him to get to Holyfield, with tunnel vision.... Let me put it this way: There is a split in the general opinion, some believing Tyson quit, others thinking the street fighter in Tyson that dominated his youth and busted Mitch Green's eye took over. However, EVERYONE knows Liston quit against Clay and Duran quit against Leonard. There is no split or debate. So i don't see how Tyson's doubt able quit job is worse than 100% undeniable quit jobs of the latter mentioned.
My big gripe about Liston is how he quit against Ali ... however, if you study his fights before Ali, to say Tyson had the physical advantages is a joke. Liston had a much better jab. Liston had a much larger reach. I definately think Liston was a better single shot banger with either hand. Liston was a much better boxer who could fight from the outside and the inside. The young Tyson was a dynamo but I think Liston beats him in five or six rounds. Liston was an exceptional fighter which is why his Ali fights smell like sh-t to me .
Do you know that Liston himself was behind that substance that got in Ali's eyes? I don't. Angelo Dundee doesn't either. ... really? Eyes tear and sight returns in minutes when linament gets in them. It's just a little harder to cope with someone biting off part of your ear and spitting it on the canvas. That's called mayhem. I'm a fan of Tyson who became a disillusioned one after that rematch. Tyson did give a commendable effort in the first one. Unfortunately, it traumatized him. Once Holyfield continued to show ownership of him again in the rematch, Tyson choked. Literally. There is nothing comparable to what Tyson did, particularly at that level of HW boxing. It's in a class by itself.