Conn was no 1 in 41 and 45, I can't find a higher ranking for Nova than 8 but he may have been,personally I don't seen anything wrong with Louis defending against either man in those time slots ,nor choosing Walcott over Ray whom Walcott had beaten.
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Mendoza, You would have been pleased if Louis had defended against Franklin in place of Simon II...but no man with common sense is going to defend against a worthy challenger for free.. Elmer Ray? When Louis came back from WWII Louis fought Conn, a fight that many thought should have happened...and Conn deserved therematch more than Elmer Ray...he fought Tommy who was #1 contender and Walcott who had literally cleaned up the division, including beating Ray ...If he had fought Ray instead of Walcott, today people would have shouted that he ducked Walcott who was also the #1 contender. After the Walcott fight he retired? Where should he have fought Ray...he fought the guy who bested Ray. Next Thompson , there was never any demand for Thompson - Louis match, hell he was never the #1 or #2 contender....during Louis's active years...why should Louis fight him instead of teh #1 or #2 contenders and what made Pastor , Baer, Conn or Schemelling or Walcott so inferior to him...just the fac that he was black.... You can call X fighter ducked Y , when Y was ranked yet avoided, and there was a public opinion for it... In case of Thompson 1) Louis fought the guys who was ranked ahead of him, by passing them to give Thompson a chance would have been bad.Would have been nice for you if Louis fought Pastor instead of Thompson aint it? By the by Pastor beat the tank. 2)There was no great demand for that fight...There would not have been great money either....So you want Louis too fight a fighter who was behind in the ring rankings, with no real money in the fight....Good arguement Watch where Thompson is.... See the 1941 annual ratings of the ring Joe Louis, Champion Billy Conn Lem Franklin Bob Pastor Melio Bettina Abe Simon Turkey Thompson Buddy Baer Lou Nova Arturo Godoy Roscoe Toles And the 1940 one, in case you shout that he had a chance to fight Thompson or Franklin before:- Joe Louis, Champion Max Baer Arturo Godoy Red Burman Abe Simon Buddy Walker Buddy Baer Pat Comiskey Lee Savold Otis Thomas Lem Franklin This is the 1946 one :- Joe Louis, Champion Tami Mauriello Elmer Ray Jersey Joe Walcott Bruce Woodcock Lee Q Murray Curtis Sheppard Melio Bettina Joe Baksi Joe Kahut Joey Maxim Here is the 1947 one :- Joe Louis, Champion Jersey Joe Walcott Ezzard Charles Lee Savold Johnny Flynn Joey Maxim Jimmy Bivins Joe Kahut Rusty Payne Pat Valentino Freddie Beshore There was a sort of eliminator between Ray and Walcott which Ray lost...now unless you wanted Louis to face the loser.....so that you can shout on the other hand
Franklin was being considered for a title shot but his loss to Pastor was a disaster. Pastor had lost twice to Louis and played the role of a gatekeeper for Louis's title, eliminating potential contenders by exposing their flaws. Turkey Thompson, Roscoe Tholes, Booker Beckwith and Jimmy Bivins were among his victims. Usually he would win by close decisions, but he thrashed the 20 pounds bigger Franklin and knocked him out. Franklin went onto be KO'd 6 times, ending in a fatal loss to Lanny Lane.
Yea, Franklin went on the slide quickly... He is not very hard to figure out...he was a murderuous puncher but his chin and stamina were lacking...when he stepped up he got caught... Today he is hyped up like any thing...I dare say Louis could have done easily what Pastor did...The Simons fight was a charity event I dont know why should Louis fight Franklin for charity
All the posts have refuted the theory that Louis ducked prominent black contenders . It seems very easy to snipe at a great champion ,from the safety of a computer stool. Personally ,I think his case has been proven . And more than once.
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I think, probably, spambo, you've been nailed. But you been nailed some firmly in the previously posts that...it's to be expected. God be with you. & yours. Mendoza=terrible. Some awful 0 been pointed out already to him...he ignores...
Yes M, there was "scuttlebutt" at that time that the Louis braintrust wished not to fight Maxie Rosenbloom,fearing not that Louis woudn't win, but he would not look impressive winning from the rugged and unorthodox Slapsie Maxie. No one looked good against Rosenbloom, ever...,
Franklin was only a standout contender for literally four months - from Oct. of '41 (once Louis had disposed of the higher rated Conn and Nova) until Feb. '42 (when he was crushed by Pastor, and lost almost every fight he had after that). On top of that, he broke his hand in Oct. '41 and COULD NOT FIGHT for the remainder of the year, meaning that there was actually only one or two months in which the fight was even theoretically possible to happen. He's also another one who peaked while Louis was in the army, and then went in the army himself just before Louis returned. Were they supposed to go AWOL together and fight each other on a deserted Pacific island?? What part of RAY'S PEOPLE DID NOT WANT AN IMMEDIATE SHOT AT LOUIS did you not understand??? They specifically asked for "two or three stiff fights" first (their exact words) and then blew the rematch with Walcott, who rightfully got the shot instead. ...but either didn't want them, or blew the opportunities they had.
"Max Baer meets Lou Nova of Oakland, Calif., at Madison Square Garden Friday night, in a 12 round battle bringing together two of the leading contenders for Joe Louis' crown." -Associated Press, March 31, 1941 "Conn and Nova get top rating." -Associated Press, June 27, 1941 "With Lou Nova, who meets Louis September 29 in New York, rated the leading challenger, ..." -The Baltimore Sun, September 10, 1941 "Returning to the heavyweight division, the vote groups Conn, Lem Franklin, and Bob Pastor below Louis in that order. ...Lou Nova, whose showing against Louis was tabbed the biggest disappointment of the year, dropped far down in the rankings to No. 5 in the third group [which means to #8]." -Painesville Telegraph, December 31, 1941
Walcott had two wins over Ray - he KO'd him in their first fight, and dropped him several times in the rubber match. How was Ray's streak "better"?? Walcott had beaten a whole heap of rated contenders on his way to becoming the #1 contender (including the top rated Bivins). By contrast, Ray had not beaten a single rated contender prior to upsetting Walcott (Savold was unranked in the year Ray beat him), had been KO'd by the two rated fighters he had previously fought (Turk Thompson and John Henry Lewis). That's absurd - the guy who was the better fighter with better power and better wins, and higher rated, was somehow a "less risk"?? :huh
My2Sense-- And don't forget, Walcott was coming into the first Ray fight off a LOSS to Joey Maxim. How impressive was Ray's closest of close decisions?