How Close To Unbeatable Was FOTC Frazier?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Foreman stops him, still, though he would probably tag George with a good number of shots in a much more competitive bout that lasts 'till midrounds. Tyson and Frazier is a strange match to imagine -- put a gun to my head and I'll go with Frazier by late stoppage. I just don't see this magnificent madman, this fueled-by-hatred Lord-help-me-kill-this-man psychopath that is FOTC Frazier getting stopped early by Tyson, and if it goes late, Tyson does not get better, and Frazier does.

    I think he beats any version of Holmes.

    How do you guys see this Frazier doing against Lennox Lewis? I think he mauls him to a decision.
     
  2. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Then I'd put peak Ali in with the names of the people who would have had a great chance of beating Frazier that night.
     
  3. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    well foreman and liston still kill him. peak tyson you want some more?
     
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's hard to say really. But just looking at him in that fight gives me a special feeling. When, at any time in any sport, has someone so clearly been on a mission? In many ways his perfomance transcend what we think of as accomplishement. The man painted his Sixtince Chapel and cracked his theory of relativity in one night. That was the level of dedication, inentisity and craftmanship he brought to the table. Truly special.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I happen to think that this version of Frazier would have made mincemeat out of either version that fought Foreman.
     
    moneytheman12 likes this.
  6. round15

    round15 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't think any of the above blow FOTC Joe Frazier out early but they are all more than capable of doing so. I'll give the late 1960's version of Frazier some measure of credit that most on this forum doesn't against the bigger heavyweight punchers.

    Tyson doesn't possess the physical advantages that Lennox or Foreman present in a matchup against Frazier. Tyson, who was arguably slightly past his best against Holyfield the first time tried to intimidate and rush him out in the first round. Holyfield with very little head movement stayed the course and countered Tyson. Why wouldn't the Joe Frazier of 1971 who fought Ali not be able to survive Tyson in the early rounds? He definitely wouldn't be scared of Tyson

    Lennox Lewis doesn't possess the killer instint that Foreman showed against Frazier in 1973, knocking him out early. Don't forget, Foreman didn't KO the FOTC Joe Frazier, but he beat up an overweight, overconfident, out of shape version of Frazier. Lennox would backup, jab and eventually get stopped by FOTC Frazier because he doesn't have the hand or foot speed to consistently hit Frazier like Ali did. Lewis has the upper body strength to probably bully Frazier around like Foreman did, but it wouldn't happen with a referee who doesn't allow the wrestling tactics like Mercante did in Jamaica. Lennox does like to lean on his opponents and throw uppercuts underneath like he did against Michael Grant.

    Marciano and Dempsey vs FOTC Joe Frazier would be interesting matchups. Still, Frazier would have the advantage heightwise and weightwise and neither of these two hold up to the body attack or pressure of Frazier. Marciano could definitely have him down on the canvas though.

    Liston is probably the only fighter in this group I see presenting the most danger for FOTC Joe Frazier. One thing for sure, Patterson is no Joe Frazier so the fear factor is non-existent. Again, I can see Liston putting Frazier on the canvas early in the fight, but eventually getting stopped by Joe, especially if Frazier makes it past round 5. There's no reason that he shouldn't because it's not as if anyone has stopped a prime or FOTC conditioned Frazier.
     
  7. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't buy that any fighter is "unbeatable" on a particular night, just because he looks impressive against ONE particular opponent, no matter how good that opponent is or how impressive the performance is. In fact, I think it contradicts the whole notion of "unbeatable".

    A fighter's quality is something that's determined over a number of fights, over a number of years, and against a range of opponents. The Frazier that thrashed Ali might still have been blown out by Foreman, the Tyson that crushed Spinks might still have been outboxed by Douglas, the Douglas that outboxed Tyson might still have been KO'd by Holyfield or Tucker, and so on.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Holyfield had a better chin than Frazier,and he proved it.
    I see Liston putting Frazier on the canvas and keeping him there.
     
  9. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali would have beaten him that night if he had not started clowning.

    Frazier was great that night, but there were heavyweight greats would would have owned him. Foreman for sure.
     
  10. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    IMO, let's not get carried away. Smokin' Joe is a HOF great,...but, Ali took the FOTC within 90 days after Oscar...Angie and others around him urged him to wait a few more months but Ali's ego/pride said "let's get it on" and I think that cost him that fight. IMO had they scrapped in, say, June of 71, you'de have seen a different result.
    My $0.02...
     
  11. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I love Joe Frazier as everyone knows and I give him a 50 - 50 chance against any heavyweight in history, but their's no way he ever beats George Foreman ,ever, Joe is just made for him simply as that (the only way to beat George is by using ring craft and out boxing him) and the Joe Frazier against Sonny Liston fight is a 50 - 50 match up in my opinion.
     
  12. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What utter garbage people can come up with to discredit Frazier's win. A couple of more months would have made Ali the winner? Ali lost because he clowned? Please.

    No, he probably doesn't beat every heavyweight in history that night but he would surely stand a chance against any heavyweight in that kind of form.
     
  13. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Frazier was very motivated that night, but still could be hit.

    All depends what happens when the punches from Louis, Foreman, Liston, or Tyson finds Joe's chin (or body)
     
  14. OBCboxer

    OBCboxer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Frazier would certainly be a tough task for any Heavyweight in history that night. He beats Holyfield, UD or late stoppage if it's 15 rounds. There may be a chance that Frazier survives the early rounds against Foreman but I doubt it. You might know my stance on Marciano, I think Frazier wins by UD. I can't decide on the Louis fight. Tyson is 50-50 in my opinion.
     
  15. Rubber Warrior

    Rubber Warrior Resident ESB Soothsayer Full Member

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    That Frazier seemed almost supernatural, but styles being what they are to this sport, he would not be "unbeatable".