I don't care who is smarter. I won't presume to know such things. But I have never told you to go view my thread and my posts and that it might enlighten you, or anything like that. You have done so. I don't believe my poll is flawed at all. It answers my question directly. In general, do people think that ABC title holders are on par with Lineal champions when there is one present in the division. That is what I wanted to know. I tossed in Ring cuz some view it as more important than both, and some think none of them matter.
Whether it was your intention or not, you still diminished the man's accomplishments. If you ask Roy Jones, he'll tell you that he is a 4 division champion, and was the undisputed LHW champion. Meanwhile, you say that he was a 4 division titleholder. Reclassifying a champion as a title holder is diminishing their accomplishments. I continue to bring up Roy because he is a great example to use to get my point across. When he was at LHW, he was widely recognized as and introduced as the undsiputed champ. He was also the p4p no.1 fighter. Despite this, you want to claim that he was never a champion. There is clearly something wrong with this scenario.
My bad, I though you could take a joke. I bet you don't. However, that doesn't mean that it isn't. Forget about it. I really don't feel like getting into a debate about it.
I believe in one champ per division. DM rightfully won that status. I won't strip him of it even for my favorite fighter. And currently, it is often brought up that while Jones held all those belts, he was no the true champion of that division. I don't doubt he was the best fighter....Jones was the best in the world to most (you would dispute this yourself and have). If I ask Jones, he will tell me he is STILL the best fighter in the world. I am not reclassifying his titles. I always viewed things from this perspective. Jones and DM had chances to clear this up, and Jones never went after the Lineal champ at SMW. I am not diminishing anything in my eyes, but keeping them in perspective, one I have always viewed things from. I view the Lineal champ as the champ IN MOST cases. There are exceptions....The LHW division right now is one of them.
And you telling me it is makes it so? Yes, lets forget about it. I have title fights to get ready for. I see your jokes as masked sarcasm most of the time. I don't see the difference, but I will take your word for it.
Too many champions, too many weight divisions, 12 rounds as championship limit and not 15, the fact that boxing is so marginalized by the masses, many of whom care very little about the science and skill of the sport that they turn to crude and barbaric barroom type displays such as cage matches and UFC stuff. The sport of boxing is largely kept in a gilded, locked box, as in pay-per-view and cable land, whereas in the 50's, 60's and 70's the greatest fighters of the day were seen on free tv defending their titles, and the public had the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the stars of the sport much better than these days. Buffoonish, cartoonish, and thuggish behavior which may be a mirror to society is also a factor that puts off some would be fans and dosen't help boxing's popularity or chances of being a mainline sport. Maybe times are just different today, but boxing has lost the appeal it once had. That much negative stuff being said, I dare anybody to suggest that any other sport, and any other kind of athlete has the skill, guts and quality of a boxer, particularly a champion, whatever division. A boxer exemplifies courage, skill, conditioning, at times skill and resoucefulness, as in not having any team mates to turn to in his moment of crisis. Most sports don't feature the ever present threat of having a guy infront of you capable of knocking your teeth out, or giving you a concussion. It seems like a condradiction to speak of these negatives and positives existing simultaneously, but it's what gives boxing it's class and character and makes it the greatest of sports.
Have you seen the WBC, WBA, IBF rankings? They are even shitter! You can't really use 'having to create a list before the computer takes over' as part of a reason against the IBO because all the other belts require a list to be drawn up too. I know that in boxing people fight far less often than in Chess where the Elo system is implemented, but it doesn't that many iterations of the formula to begin to approach the 'true' rating Should performance rather than result affect ranking? I'm not convinced - given that getting the job done is essentially what matters. When you say that in boxing, to draw up lists, you need objective and fair analysts...are you sure that those two attributes exist in any significant amount amongst any of the sanctioning bodies? The problem is that what you are stating is the ideal solution but it is almost certainly not attainable in reality because when money is involved people make biased judments, no matter how knowedgeable or fair they might be in other circumstances. At least computerised rankings go some way bypassing corruption, racial bias, social bias, country bias, padded records, bribes, unfair influence etc.. I don't think it is the perfect solution to be honest, I just want to see the corruption out of boxing and there doesn't seem to be any easy way to do it!
assuming the other fighters are good they are top fighters in the division. i use to believe wba wbc ibf = champ no doubt but these days its hard to hold 3 belts due to the fact the ABC bodies are corrupt and how can you juggle 3 mandatories a year when fighters these days are lazy and like to fight 2-3 times a year max? i know some may not agree with my opinion but the best fighter in the division is the best fighter in the division
Now...I never said the sanctioning bodies' rankings were good or better than the Ring's, did I...they are ****! That is why I never go by anybody else's ranking, but go by the consensus that exists between knowledgeable, objective analysts who specialise on a certain division, here, at ESB.
The RING is no better than any of the Alphabet organizations. Last time I checked they still had Casamayor at #1 even after that farce of a win.
It was a farce but it was officially a win for casamayor. The minute they start deciding results for themselves is when they lose credibility imo.
You can drive yourself round the bend thinking about this. I can trundle along thinking I believe that the linear title is the only real title then Ill think of an exception that can be made, then another and then another. Im definately not comfortable with Roy Jones being the best fighter enver ti win a real world title... :shock: Thinking about that does my nut! I like to beleive that Haye, Calzaghe, Pavlik, Mayweather and Hatton are the only real champs but can anyone dispute that tonights fight between Manny and JMM isnt for THE super featherweight title, they are the highest ranked fighters... Vasquez-Marquez is another one, in my mind that was THE super bantamweight title which was on the line. Most of the time I ranked ABC champs as title holders, unless he is clearly the top dog then its okay in my mind to cal him champ. If there is a legit champion and several paper champs below him that are only contenders in my mind.
My List of Boxing Champions::good HW: This content is protected - Klitschko would have to beat Chagaev to be Champion CW: This content is protected LHW: This content is protected - Calzaghe would have to beat Dawson to be Champion SMW: This content is protected This content is protected MW: This content is protected LMW: This content is protected - Spinks v. Forrest winner v. Dzinziruk v. Alcine winner would be Champion WW: This content is protected - Mayweather v. Cotto winner would be Champion JWW: This content is protected - Hatton v. Witter winner would be Champion LW: This content is protected SFW: This content is protected FW: This content is protected - John v. Guerrero winner would be Champion SBW: This content is protected BW: This content is protected SFW: This content is protected - Mijares v. Munoz winner v. Montiel winner would be Champion FW: This content is protected JFW: This content is protected SW: This content is protected ...my two cents...:good
Because according to most good, objective analysts who follow the LHW division closely, Dawson is currently the best in the division. :conf