Again cliches that make no sense. How can a record speak for itself? The only way that would work is to look at the best numbers, so Toney is no where near great... Add that to your opening statement about his inconsistencies, I can only assume you too beneath the bravado believe him not to be great.
When you are judging a fighter's career you can't just cherry pick the bits you like. You have to look at the whole picture to be fair; so that means his losses, draws and the drugs issue as well as how good he could be when on top form. As someone else has said I don't believe a truly great fighter would drop 2 decisions to a fighter like Montell Griffin.
OK then Berbick and Spinks beat Ali, who most would say is one of the two best Heavies in the modern era, so they must of been awesome! One fighter who gets totally overlooked is Al Lovino, a man who stopped Henry Armstrong... Flippancy aside, my point is sure everyone is entitled to an opinion. But if your opinion is based around names and numbers, boxing can make you look rather stupid.
different posters definition of great fighters seems to vary from only the top 20 to the top 1000, mine would be closer to 1000, and these weights toney would be around the lower end of great for me. as i posted in the tyson douglas - pppppp, even if toney was never **** poor he should have done more imo I just watched jones toney and even with stamina i dont think he was gonna win edit - re watched
And lost! So it needs to be put in context, using both hindsight and recognizing the events of the time. A brief outline of my thoughts: Nunn was not looking great going into the Toney fight, but was winning when Toney stopped him. But Toney deserves kudos for beating a respected undefeated fighter. Toney struggled with McCallum twice at 160lbs, in fights he was expected to shine in. But McCallum was a cunning, very good veteran fighter and Toney did not lose to him. Toney often struggled to motivate himself for fights he should of won with ease at 160lbs. Up on entering the 168lbs division, Toney puts in a scintillating performance against Barkley. Although Iran had eye trouble, he had no trouble seeing Van Horn coming into the Toney bout, and had looked near top form. Off the back of this many had Toney and Whitaker as vying for the top spot of best pound for pound fighter. Toney looked very good beating Charles Williams. But then came the Jones fight. A virtual pick'em that Jones dominated and to a point humiliated Toney in. This leads me to the conclusion Toney was in the 160 odd year history of Queensberry rules, a very good/excellent fighter at 160/168, but someone who fell short of being 'great'...
Toney broke Nunn down round after round, no fluke in that and by doing so won the lineal championship against an undefeated P4P boxer McCallum fights were very close, no knock on Toney though because McCallum is 1 of the best MWs of all time himself Charles Williams was a LHW Champ, so a good win and a great performance Barkley wasn't great but a 3 weight titlist who Duran fans celebrate a win over. It was a quality exhibition the way Toney picked him apart The Littles performance was pretty bad ass too. The Jones fight, well the less said about it the better, but allot of greats get dominated 1 time or another by another great and Jones is one of the greatest natural phenemenon's that boxing's ever seen. Toney obviously doesn't have longevity at the weight but his competition level is very high, McCallum, Jones and Nunn are 3 of the best MWs of all time.
On a cloudy day and without the girlfriend around, give me some Toney fights. He's one of the most interesting guy to watch from 160 pounds to 260. I suspect that he'll also be really fun to watch in 30 years. He'll look like an old school ******* who knew his trade. History tends to remember these guys well. He'll also always be the fat guy that Jones Jr put down, in his many highlight videos. :yep
Toney only proved his gr8ness as a CW & a HW . Toney was actually matched carefully prior 2 eating himself outside d 175 limit . Drained Nunn , drained Barkley and drained Charles Williams made 4 impressive wins on paper and even on film , until 1 notices that they were heavily drained and at least in Barkley's & Williams' cases they were also shot by that time. Nunn was merely possibly somewhat past his prime . 2 me he got 2 draws with McCallum , and not just 1 . Tiberi surely did not lose , and Johnson deserved at least a draw . d 12 years older McCallum , also slightly above his best w8 , with Toney's mediocre achievement against him , should not b counted much in Toney's credit either . But "fighters" like RJJ & Ray Leonard make the protected matching of Toney seem like a wild suicidal career :yep , so not every1 will agree with it . I think that so many used steroids , so I do not hold it much against him . In this sport I think it hinders a fighters' per4mance more than it helps it , because it helps him gain w8. And a fighter needs 2 lose as much w8 as he can as opposed 2 gaining it . I think that Toney can easily b regarded as a top 10 p4p USA fighter out of d born past 1940 crop , and a must top 20 in such a list . On another note in Toney's defense , he was drained himself in almost all of his high profile fights . And going by d 10 mast system scoring RBR , it may b argued that Jirov won more rds and hence deserved d verdict . Surest thing is that d actual scorecards 4 this fight were tailored . But if Jones , Leonard , Hopkins , Gomez , Zarate , Orlando Canizales and Ricardo Lopez get d credit that they get , then Toney must b remembered as 1 of d gr8est among d gr8s .