How does it affect Frazier's performance in FOTC and Manila if Ali is really nice to him?

If Ali was uncharacteristically polite to Frazier throughout their rivalry (instead of taunting him), how does that affect Frazier's performances against Ali in their first and third meetings?

Without channeling his hatred of Ali into the performances of his life, does Frazier do as well?

 

It might have been quite different. People often seem to forget that Ali knocked Frazier around more than a little in the early rounds, and at several points you can actually see the latter with a very grave, fantastically determined look on his face. That fight was do or die for Joe, and it had a TON to do with his ultimate victory.

I think Ali might have stopped him before 7 if there hadn't been that factor. Anyone rewatching that fight with even a cursory interest could see that Joe took some no-joke shots.

 

Muhammad Ali being nice to Joe Frazier is what is known in my profession is Passive Aggressive Behavior, pretending to behave in a nice courteous way only to do the worst, there are a lot of Mentally Disturbed with this behavior, even some people in the communities with this type of behavior. Joe Frazier was one of the few opponents that was unaffected by the behavior of others, before The Fight Of The Century he was oblivious to the antics of challenger Muhammad Ali in months leading up to their epic match. Joe would have saw thru this phoniness in a heartbeat. On the other hand I believe that it hurt Frazier inside but he had the pride not to display it.

 

I wasn't talking about Ali creepily fawning on Joe. More like the unusual politeness, respect, and cheerfulness exhibited by people like Old Foreman, occasionally Patterson, etc.

Ali and Frazier were apparently reasonably friendly during Ali's exile. Frazier helping Ali with his license, etc. So that's more along the lines of what I'm talking about.

 

I was not talking about Muhammad Ali creeping on Joe Frazier either, it just struck me that there are professionals and everyday people who are Passive Aggressive, it does not always have to refer to intimacy, everyday people are somewhat like that, not all. If it was genuine on Ali's part, maybe Joe Frazier may have seen this as a weakness, on the other hand both fighters may have developed a mutual respect towards one another.

 

Joe was hungry at the time. Lineal championship was the ultimate crown jewel of his career.

 

YUP!

 

Good question - while Frazier was a warrior through and through, and loved battle, Ali’s treatment of him pushed that drive from a 7 or 8 to an 11 come fight night - and I think it only intensified in the four year span of their rivalry, worse in 1975 than 1971. Joe would never quit, but without that fire driving him, maybe he does suffer a stoppage by Manila - a lot of mileage in his career by then, that was his last hurrah and Ali maybe had a bit more at that point

 

So true, Joe Frazier worked hard to get that title, going thru Buster Mathis and then Jimmy Ellis. Then defending his lineal title against challenger Muhammad Ali, who had been stripped of his title and boxing license back in 1967 for refusing to serve in the U.S. Army.

 

Frazier would have turned in the same performance if he was fighting his Mother.

 

Frazier gets all googly eyed, falls in love with Ali, brings flowers into the ring & it becomes The Marriage of the Century.

 

Both would laugh and hug a lot more in the fight, put their tongue out at each other at the end. Maybe go to each other corners and have a natter with the others team.
But on the whole... No different.

 

No dice. Joe goes at 100% whether Alis good, bad or indifferent to him. He knew no other way to fight

 

Remember Ali still just recently came back from exile and he came in underestimating Frazier, while noticeably gassing out towards the end of the fight. He definitely has a chance to do better but Frazier always came in hungry no matter who his opponent was.

 

I think it would be the same. The rubber match would be the one that happens differently (if at all).