How good was Foreman`s performance v Cooney?

1980 Holmes would have stopped AJ in 12 imo.

 

LOL Ruiz just got knocked down by a beyond shot Chris Arreola, Foreman would have killed him, that was obvious before but now it's basically a fact

 

Well, Truth be told Smokin Joe has been commonly accepted as the perfect opponent for Foreman to look good against, Norton was fragile both were not very ring savy at all and really benefitted a lot from Futch's educated eyes. The second Fraizer fight was "closer" with George being more educated and Joe being close to shot, some would say he was. (I do) Ruiz also demolished Joshua in a fire fight which is what George would be brining to Ruiz.

 

The problem with questioning Foreman, Norton and Joe is that it brings down Ali's status.

 

They are not the same, there is no X beats Y because Z did it, can you tell me what Savon did well? how he was similar at all to Holmes?
What do you mean more complex? in what way? This as also an AM bout but my point remains.

 

It's hard for me to see Foreman do anything but mow over both Ruiz and Joshua...though I can imagine Joshua making an interesting go at it.

I just don't put Joshua in the same league as George, Ken, Larry, 64-74 Ali, peak Frazier. I certainly don't put Ruiz there.

But that's just me, no offense to fans. As I mentioned above, whoever wins the Fury Joshua fight will definitely crack top 20 ATG for me, putting them a bit ahead of Norton, maybe Bowe.

 

I don't think Ruiz would beat all those guys, Well maybe who knows? I would need to see Ruiz finish his career before I assume anything but its likely most of them beat him.

 

Just a little balance shot while shaking off the rust and testing out some Canelo moves.

It’s not like being dropped and schooled by Jimmy Young.

 

Name the 25, chap.

 

Who said they were the same ? My entire point was i favore Holmes because Savon gave Aj trouble with his mobility and his outboxing and Holmes has great mobility. In addition to that Savon picked Joshua off very effectively with his jab and countered well at mid-long range. Savon was on on his toes most of the fight and displayed beautiful outboxing. Pretty much everything Savon did to trouble Aj, Holmes did better besides maybe counter punching ? Holmes was also great at parrying and stretched his arms out alot to dictate distance.

Holmes was just an overall better outboxer than Savon and is a proven ATG. I'd favor him over Aj, do YOU not favor Holmes over Aj ?

 

You won't like it my friend, but sure. I actually do have AJ cracking the 25, apologies.
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Holyfield
5. Foreman
6. Lewis
7. Marciano
8. Frazier
9. Tyson
10. Wlad
11. Liston
12. Dempsey
13. Johnson
14. Vitali
15. Tunney
16. Charles
17. Bowe
18. Walcott
19. Fitzsimmons
20. Norton
21. Sullivan
22. Patterson
23. Fury
24. Jeffries
25. Joshua

 

Are you basing the outcome of the fight based on a much, much greener version of AJ who had never been more then 3 rounds who was not even ?
I think Holmes takes it, its your logic I am disagreeing with.

 

Yeah he was green but Savon is NO holmes thats the entire point. Nobody was using XYZ logic, i was using Styles make fights logic because Styles DO make fights. Aj is skilled but he is methodical and upright even today because he is a straight up textbook fighter, thats why a slick, quick footed fighter like Savon gave him serious issues. Aj has significantly improved but he has yet to fight an smaller mobile outboxer since Savon. We'll see how he deals with Usyk or Michael Hunter

 

Such a negative one eyed outlook when it comes to all things Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Lyle and the 70's heavyweight landscape. One can cast shade on virtually any era with such a fixated mindset.

Trying to strip Foreman of his victory over Frazier because you deem Frazier to be "the perfect opponent for Foreman to look good against" doesn't cut it. It comes off as simply a shallow attempt to denigrate one of the great heavyweight victories of all time due to who achieved it and what era he fought in.

Frazier was the 3 1/2-1 favorite coming in. It's not just that Foreman won, it's how he won.

Blanket claiming Norton to be "fragile" time and time and time again is embarrassing. Someone that goes 39 rounds with Ali and 15 with Holmes whilst never being dropped or looking like being stopped is not "fragile". Holmes stopped 11 of his next 12 opponents. Tho not massive punchers Holmes and Ali have 81 stoppages between them i.e. they weren't overly easy to go the distance against.

Norton had a 46 fight streak where he was stopped just twice. One was in his 17th fight when his career was yet to turn the corner and take of which is explained in various articles. 5 years later he avenged with emphatic ease. The other was to a rampant George Foreman who would pole axe many a great heavyweight and was at the time a force of nature.

The guy was almost 36 by the time Shavers, one of the hardest hitter ever, stopped him.

So that's just one stoppage loss to an ATG fighter and puncher in his prime to a guy Ring voted #9 on their P4P top punchers of all time list.

As for him not being ring savvy i'm going to call rubbish. He went tooth and nail across 4 bouts with Holmes and Ali and one doesn't do that without being savvy. Plenty of Futch fighters with Futch gameplans ended up with their eyes closed, as good as Futch was. It wasn't him out there throwing and taking punches.

The Frazier from the Foreman rematch still would have beat almost every other fighter in the division, probably everyone not named Ali or Foreman despite being way past his best.

I'm not even going to begin debating a fantasy where Ruiz beats Foreman. He neither hits hard enough nor takes a good enough punch.

 

All these years of watching boxing, yet you still talk like someone watching it all for the first time, You sound like someone who watches but does not understand he is seeing. Watch Norton fight and you will see why he survived it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it.
It is context and film that matters not the numbers you are pulling up off boxrec. Never said Ruiz beats Foreman lol.