How high can Canelo realistically rank in terms of all time greatness?

Not like Canelo lost to GGG. If you argue that Canelo won the second fight that's fine, I watched it again today and had it a draw (and on my 5th time of scoring it I've only come out with a Canelo win once), then yes you have a point but Canelo clearly lost the first fight. Clearly. It wasn't close GGG was outright robbed. Canelo has 0 case for a win he only won 4 rounds. Even if you give him the close rounds he still gets a draw, not 118-110.

Yes because Canelo and Del a Hoya are all about legacy, not money, why else would they fix fights and rob people? Money? Nah its not what they want.
Canelo doesn't take the challenges for sake of taking challenges he takes them for money, Kovalev being the recent example. It's a tough challenge and therefore a big fight but if he was going after a challenge he'd have paid him enough to make the fight and not had anything to do with the weights.

Well I'm not. Exposed that is. Yeah I don't like Canelo, I've made an entire thread about how shitty he is. I don't hide it. I don't like corruption and blatant cheating.

I don't like it when Canelo does it and I don't like it when Pacquiao does it. Hence why I didn't include the 150 title Pacquiao was given against Margarito.
I don't have to talk up Pacquiao to show he shits all over Canelo.
In fact I've spent the last 2 days debating who's greater Pac or Ali and I feel like a hater, which I'm not.

Nah, the Golovkin remark was a correction in a post about comparing Pacquiao to Canelo.

Nah you didn't expose anything. Not to mention the whole thing this debate came from is a debate over Pacquiao and Canelo, you can't win.

 

If you don't think Canelo GGG 1 was close YDKSAB. Personally I thought Canelo won the first fight clearer than he won the 2nd fight, but it's a matter of opinion on what you value. Most people give Canelo more credit in the 2nd fight because he fought like GGG wanted him to, in a come foward aggressive style and landed more big damaging shots on GGG. But the first fight was a master class from Canelo. You say Canelo only won 4 rounds, which rounds would those be? Canelo won rounds 1,2,3,10,11,and12 pretty clearly. Rounds 4 and 6 are also good Canelo rounds, closer rounds but arguable for Canelo. Canelo was winning round 5 until the final minute, you could give GGG that 5th round and rounds 7-9 but that's about it. Canelo landed the cleaner more eye catching shots in almost every round. He also displayed better defense.

First fight was about an 8 rounds to 4 Canelo win, 2nd fight was a little closer 7-5 Canelo win. If anyone was robbed in the first fight it was Canelo. GGG didn't land enough clean punches to deserve a draw, he was gifted it. You also can't give away the first 4 rounds of a fight and expect to win a decision vs a top P4P fighter. GGG didn't even get into the fight until the final minute of the 5th round. You can't take that long to finally land a good shot and expect to win a decision. Canelo was making GGG look like an novice for most of the first fight. GGG was just coming forward like a Mummy while Canelo was showcasing all sorts of high level skills, setting traps for counter punches, he also landed a lot more body shots than GGG did. The best punches in the first fight were landed by Canelo.

Again 1,2,3,4,6,10,11,and 12 were good Canelo rounds. Some of those were close but GGG didn't win any of those rounds clearly. Even in rounds 7-9, GGG's best rounds, while Canelo was outworked he still landed the best single shots of those rounds. It was just a master class performance by Canelo in that first fight and there's no excuse for you not being able to see that and observe what happened.

 

It wasn't. It was competitive not close. Big difference.
GGG won at least 7 rounds, an Argument for 8 that's not a close fight.

No. No he really didn't. He won 1,2,3 and 12 clealy. That's it.

What you've just said is that Canelo had an argument for a shut out. After saying that if anyone thinks it's not a close fight DKSAB. Makes sense.

He did, GGG shrugged them off and kept Canelo on the run and landed more jabs. He outlanded Canelo and did the better so whilst keeping Canelo running.

We're don't here.

 

I've stated why I feel Canelo beat GGG in the first fight, why a draw if fair, and why I won't argue with someone having GGG as the winner. It was a very close fight. I gave Canelo the first four rounds, and the last three. Canelo landed more power punches, a greater variety of punches, made Golovkin miss at a higher rate, and fought at his pace for at the very least half of the fight.

All I'm saying is that Canelo beat GGG, and we're clearly in agreement. Legends like Duran Foreman, and Chavez also had Canelo beating GGG Mexican style.

Oh, so now we're using conspiracies to support your arguments lol. Come on man, lets be real, lets talk real. You don't need to reduce yourself to kiddie stuff.

Obviously every fighter is about money, but some fighters actually care about glory and clearly Canelo has proven to be one of the few stars today chasing glory.

Took very little money in comparison to Floyd for a chance at glory.
Fought to SWW and risky Austin Trout despite being considered by Mayweather as an opponent.
Fought Ersilandy Lara when he didn't have too, and when Lara was the top JrMW and most feared fighter at the time.
Allowed Cotto to take the lion's share of the purse for a chance at fighting him despite Canelo being the A side.
Paid GGG what he wanted to get him in the ring since GGG would said money or no fight. (No fighter with the drawing power of GGG had ever made that much in a single fight)
Paid GGG even more for the rematch.
Fought elite MW Daniel Jacobs when fighters like GGG already rejected him as a possible opponent.
Offered Kovalev his biggest payday ever for a shot a the LHW crown.
Rumored to be negotiating for Derevyanchenko, a good fighter GGG DUCKED.

Corruption? Where's the proof? Again, its all just conspiracy. Just like I can't say Pacquiao definitely doped up. So lets be consistent in this debate. As far as cheating, no one likes it, however Canelo did take a Hair follicle test and it came clean, and he also willingly signed up for VADAs most stringent program being subjected to ransom testing year round, seven days a week, 24 hours a day... and during that time when he was being tested he moved up in weight again, and dominated a good contender, beat Golovkin, and beat Jacobs, again, all while being subjected to being tested randomly. I think he's more than proven he's a clean fighter. Even if he doped up, which I doubt based on the Hair follicle test, the statement from the lab director, and the fact that he was moving up in weight not moving down. So while you have your prerogative to believe he is a cheat and still cheating, I rather not be a pessimist and will grant him the benefit of the doubt people like Fury, Saunders, Povetkin, Ortiz, Klitschko, Jones Jr. and countless fighters who have not nearly as much as Canelo to prove they're clean have received.

You know what is corrupt, allowing a fighter like GGG fight a welterweight like Brooks, retired fighters like Martirosyan, and a fighter like Roles for the sake of KO reels. That's how people end up getting permanently hurt.

So you don't count his welterweight title since he won if off Cotto also at a catcweight.

As I said previously, no one fighting today is as accomplished as Pac, I'm not even trying to compare anyone to him. I was comparing GGG, and Canelo is clearly more accomplished, ranks higher today and overall.

You haven't convinced me otherwise, Canelo>GGG.

Try again.

 

You keep drinking that kool aid george. Pac is on something, Floyd was on something. So on and so fourth. If youre that gullible, you a remedial.

 

Gennady kicked Moo's ass twice but Vegas judges gave him gifts

 

You lost all credibility with one sentence " Canelo popped dirty twice yes but he's done more than any other fighter to prove he's clean" ROFLMAO you couldnt make this stuff up

 

There is such a category: it’s called....Caneloweight!

 

OK That's a good starting point. So lets focus on the rounds we disagree. 10 and 11, and rounds 4 and 6. These seem to be the critical swing rounds that change the scoring from 7-5/8-4 Canelo to 7-5/8-4 GGG depending on how you score these rounds. And as a caveat I did give GGG the 5th round but it was yet another round that could be argued for Canelo. Canelo was clearly winning that round at the half way point but GGG landed that shot and finished the round strong. I gave that round to GGG but if you score it start to finish it's actually hard to give it to GGG. (look at what Canelo landed in the first 2 minutes and compare that to what GGG landed in the final minute)

So it's important to note that giving GGG the 5th is giving GGG a close round, a round that I felt he deserved due to how he finally landed some good punches towards the end of the round and started getting into the fight, but it was a round that Canelo did some great work in the first two minutes. What is clear to me is that GGG did better in the 4th and the 5th than he did in the first 3. But still I can't just give GGG both of those rounds just because he did better, they were still good Canelo rounds, as was the 6th. GGG's best round seemed to be round 7 and I don't have any problem with GGG winning rounds 7-9 however if you really wanted to you could find reasons to give rounds 8 or 9 to Canelo just for landing those big shots. What all this boils down to is that Canelo won more rounds clearly than GGG did. Even round 7 Sanchez chewed GGG out in the corner following the round about giving the round away in the final minute.

GGG clearly had difficulty winning any rounds start to finish, while Canelo won several rounds clearly like 1,2,3 and 12 as you've conceded. If you want to go through rounds 10 and 11 let me know.

That's not what I said at all. GGG landed some good shots in rounds 7-9, he was controlling those rounds with effective aggression, he did get caught a couple of times but you simply can't give Canelo all those rounds, you can't even give him 2 of those 3 imho. Canelo was being outworked.

G has a good poker face but he was being lit up at times. He did outland Canelo but only with shots that were grazing Canelo as he slipped and countered. In round 7 GGG landed some good hard jabs on Canelo, that was about the only round where he landed flush jabs with any regularity. In rounds 8 and 9 he outlanded Canelo outworked him but they weren't landing as flush as they were in the 7th.

There's an argument to be made that GGG won the fight, however the argument you were making was that it wasn't even close, which is obviously absurd. It was not only competitive but it was close. So was the 2nd fight, in my view even closer. While Canelo landed more power shots on GGG in the rematch due to being more aggressive, on the flip side I thought GGG displayed much better skills in the rematch than he did in the first fight. In the first fight he looked like a Mummy, in the rematch he came into it with a different mindset, a mindset to not fight "Mexican Style" instead to be more of a pure boxer. And it won him some rounds (1,4,10, and maybe a couple others). The difference in the rematch was that GGG was more ready to go in the opening round.

There's nothing wrong with you thinking GGG won the first fight, but just don't act like it wasn't even close or it was just such a clear GGG win. That's complete BS and you know it. The outrage was over the Byrd card, which admittedly was a little wide. However some of the rounds that Byrd gave Canelo were justifiable. I think the problem with her view of the fight and the masses view of the fight was just that Canelo was making it look too easy (know what I mean?) Canelo looked so relaxed in there in that first fight I think he made it look too easy, which is why many couldn't bring themselves to say he won. People just couldn't believe how Canelo was just toying with GGG in that first fight and out of envy for how talented Canelo was many GGG fans just refuse to give him credit for that victory.

 

Neither Moonelo or FlIVd would be where they are today without the backing of Bob Bennett The NSAC & Vegas boxing. Both legal & illegal backing. Both would have several losses also
Guys like Pac man GGG & Tony Margarito got their success because they are FIGHTERs!!! They EARNED their success with blood sweat & tears
Fluffy & Moo have no one to blame but themselves theyre both very talented fighters but chose the easy path of robbery & conspiracy. This is why their legacies will always PALE!! in comparison to GGG & Pac

 

You're a troll C.J.Rock. People know you're a fake now.

 

k cheers.

 

Never rated him, he was never in contention for p4p 1 at any point because all his major wins are contentious. Never had any dominance even against B level guys like trout, Jacobs, Lara. As good as those guys are, they’re not elite A level guys.

He beat GGG fair in the rematch IMO and the first fight was close but why does he always get the benefit of doubt with judges scoring?

Heck even Cotto arguably beat him, that fight was close as fk.

 

You can say this about any fighter if we are talking about opinions. The record shows he lost to Mayweather, but beat the others.

 

No mames
Don’t disrespect Mexican boxing