How is Usyk better than Canelo P4P?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by shadow111, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Flamazide

    Flamazide Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Usyk's jab is better
    Usyk's adaptability is actually better. Canelo's responses actually aren't that great
    Usyk has significantly better footwork.

    There is more than one way to avoid a punch. Canelo is flashier but Usyk appears to get hit less, outland his opponents by more, and hurt them more despite not being known as a power puncher.

    Also a lot of what you're talking about is the result of being smaller.
     
  2. ellerbe

    ellerbe Loyal Member Full Member

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    He's not.
     
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  3. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't know why you are assuming that Canelo needs unfair advantages to win. It seems to me that fans who do not like Canelo for whatever reason are just desperate to discredit him and say stuff like that. Canelo has earned his place in the sport the hard way, and he's won all his fights on his own. You have every right to disagree with decisions but Canelo has performed at a very high level in every one of his victories, and he did that all on his own.
     
  4. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Canelo is a better power puncher, has more punch variety, and is better at putting punches together. Canelo is more skilled at parrying punches and making opponents miss. Usyk's jab is better because he has a longer reach and is rangier. Usyk is hunched over and his posture does not allow him to do the kind of things that Canelo can do.

    Canelo operates on a much higher level and has a visibly higher boxing IQ than Usyk. Usyk is much more of a basic fighter than Canelo. Canelo is also a more entertaining fighter to watch. He's a more fluid boxer who has shown the ability to fight in a variety of styles to match the opponent and the situation. Usyk moves in a more herky - jerky manner.
     
  5. Heavy_Hitter

    Heavy_Hitter Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk wins for real when Canelo only needs to survive 12 rounds to win. Most of Canelos victories are actually losses, that we're upgraded by Oscar from loss to victory by depositing a big fat paycheck.
     
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  6. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sounds like you're drinkin the haterade to me.
     
  7. deadACE

    deadACE Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's a strange comparison because if we're looking at skill for skill, that's Usyk' s world. He's a pure boxer, where I have Canelo down as a boxer puncher. Sorry for me Usyk, based on skill, is far ahead of Canelo.

    You could make a case as a power puncher then Canelo might edge it p4p against Usyk.

    Usyk hasn't beat any hof or atg, he hasn't even beat a fairly dominant champ at CW. You could make an argument Canelo beat a hof in GGG in the second fight, problem is the win wasn't dominant and a case could be made that he just scraped a victory. Alot of people have GGG as the winner of both fights.

    P4p is so subjective and irrelevant. It's a pointless metric to judge fighters.
     
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  8. Heavy_Hitter

    Heavy_Hitter Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not really, over 75 percent of people scored both GGG fights in favour of Golovkin. Lara was super close as well. Overall Usyk is just better. Deal with it. Canelo is a B fighter with an iron chin and protection from golden boy and Usyk is elite
     
  9. chatty

    chatty Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You need to take into account resume and achievements as that effects how well you can assess their ability. Otherwise you'll. Have Buck Smith rocking up with 100 KOs and being in the top echelon despite fighting no one of note.

    But yeah, you can go off the eye test and technical ability but it's needs to be backed up with depth of success.
     
  10. Flamazide

    Flamazide Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Canelo is more explosive but the downside is that comes with that and his exaggerated motions that people praise him for is that it takes a toll on his stamina so if he can't hurt you with his counters early on later in the fight he won't get the stoppages anyway. Usyk is the opposite. They are respectable shots that he can do throughout the fight to break you down. So in practical terms Canelo isn't even the better power puncher.

    Usyk still gets hit less so your point about parrying doesn't actually matter.

    Usyk isn't basic. If you can't see this fundamental thing then I don't know what to tell you.
     
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  11. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    He's unified a division, he did that fighting abroad without 'favourable' judging. There are no question marks against his name re: PEDs, or asterisks against wins because of 'tainted meat' or intentional doping. He doesn't have any Smiths, Khans or Fieldings on his resume, post winning world titles. He's charismatic and likeable. In terms of pure boxing ability, both have strengths and weakness and are on par, in my eyes. But for the reasons listed above I prefer Uysk and rate him higher...
     
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  12. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    What's mainly in Canelo's favour is the length of his resume. That's a solid slab of career right there. On the other hand Usyk has done everything the hard way and Canelo not so much. Canelo's best opponent Golovkin is better than anybody Usyk has on his resume. On the other hand most people felt he lost to GGG. It's difficult to weight up.
     
  13. vnyc

    vnyc Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Canelo hahhahahahaha lol , was cought juicing and still lost twice to GGG . Usyk cleaned the division and did it in style in the backyards if his opopenents.
     
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  14. Daddy

    Daddy Active Member Full Member

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    Canelo - 4 questionable decisions and 1 pure loss
    Usyk - 1 close but clear decision and 1 close fight but ended as a KO

    Ok, I'll take my chances on saying Usyk is higher on the P4P scales than Canelo. I'm not sure you grasp what P4P means? Usyk doesn't fight under an overprotective banner and isn't considered a cash cow. Canelo is a great boxer no doubt but his record is somewhat fabricated not to mention he was caught cheating per a ruling in the court system.
     
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  15. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It depends on what criteria we're using to determine who should be ranked higher pound for pound.

    If we're going by who's offensive + defensive skills are better, then statistically, it's Usyk. Why? Since the number of punches he lands on his opponents, relative to the number of punches he gets hit by, and the difference between those two numbers, is greater than Canelo's numbers.

    If we're going by accomplishments, then Usyk has Canelo beat there too.

    1) Usyk has become the undisputed champion in one division and totally cleaned up that division, beating every opponent conclusively bar one (Mairis Briedis). Meanwhile, Canelo is yet to TOTALLY clean up any weight division and is yet to become undisputed in any weight division.

    2) Oleksandr Usyk has defeated multiple top 10 undefeated opponents, in their home country, with many things stacked against his favor. Canelo is still yet to travel outside his own territory or comfort zone, and beat top opponents with as many things stacked against him. Oleksandr Usyk's success as a road warrior > Canelo's success fighting with most things stacked in his favor in his home territory and at his comfort zone.

    3) Usyk has never ducked anybody or avoided any opponent he should've fought, in his career in the division he has fought in. Meanwhile, Canelo is still yet to fight opponents he has unfinished business with. Such as Daniel Jacobs, Charlo Brothers, Demetrius Andrade and etc.


    If we're ranking based on individual boxing attributes. Then it depends on what attributes we're comparing. When it comes to the absolute fundamentals and basics of boxing, Oleksandr Usyk has Canelo Alvarez beat. Why? Because the three most fundamental aspects of boxing are:

    1) Footwork

    2) Jab

    3) Basic stance


    Usyk's jab is far superior. This isn't even up for debate! If you want to argue Canelo's shorter height makes his jab inferior. Then keep in mind, that even against opponent's his own height or shorter, Canelo's jab still lands less frequently and with less quality than Usyk's jab does against opponent's his own height or shorter.

    Usyk controls distance better with his jab than Canelo does too.

    On top of that, Usyk's footwork is better. He remains on his toes more. And is able to attack from more angles and from more positions, than Canelo can. And is also able to maintain distance better whilst boxing whereas Canelo is unable to box as well whilst keeping his opponents at bay with his footwork and jab.

    So this makes Usyk the far better outside / long range boxer.

    And I'd like to know what was so impressive with Canelo's footwork against Golovkin in the first fight? If Canelo's footwork was so good, why was he forced to touch the ropes with his back, time after time? Why couldn't he avoid touching the ropes by being able to escape via pivots and lateral movement? If his footwork was so good, then where were those angular attacks that boxers with good footwork use?

    You can't be considered to have good footwork, if you're opponent can't stop forcing you to touch the ropes with your back, over and over again. That's a sign of bad footwork and not good footwork. That's also a sign of bad ring generalship, because you're giving away the center of the ring whilst being forced into a less advantageous area of the ring.

    It's the same in martial arts like taekwondo or Olympic wrestling. If your opponent forces you out of the combat arena, then it's a sign of you being the inferior combat general and it's a sign of you failing. Hence why you lose a point or your opponent gets awarded a point, when that happens. It's the same in boxing. If you get forced to touch the ropes, then you're essentially being forced out of the ring for all intent and purposes if the ropes were not to be there. That's a sign of bad ring generalship.

    Proper good footwork would allow a boxer to avoid touching the ropes by allowing them to pivot to escape the ropes or corners. Canelo didn't show that ability against Golovkin. Usyk has regularly shown that ability.

    And also, you stated that Bellew was the ring general against Usyk? Based on what? When you're being forced to react constantly by your opponent as Bellew was by Usyk, and being forced to move backwards towards the ropes, and forced to move at a pace you're not comfortable with due to the feints and probes Usyk was using to force Bellew to move more frequently and at a faster pace than what he's comfortable with, and being forced to tire as a result, then that's not a sign of Bellew or anybody else for that matter, being the superior ring general. You're understanding of what ring generalship is, is very lacking.

    There are many other attributes we can compare Usyk and Canelo that are beyond just the basics and fundamentals. Such as:

    - Stamina: Where Usyk has Canelo beat. Since he throws more punches on average, and fights at a faster pace on average, than Canelo does.

    - Inside fighting: Canelo Alvarez has Usyk beat.

    - Mid-range fighting: Usyk is better, due to his attacking angles and superior in and out movement.

    - Feinting: Usyk is far better at feinting than Canelo. He feints and probes more.
    Which allows him to lead better and be the superior offensive fighter overall.

    - Counter punching: Canelo Alvarez has Usyk beat in this department as he is a
    specialist here.

    - Punch variation: Usyk has Canelo beat, because he varies the speed, power and output of his punches regularly. Meanwhile, Canelo throws EVERY punch at the same speed with seemingly the same power. Both can throw every punch well, but Usyk has shown he can throw those punches in more different ways than Canelo.


    We can keep going, but you get the point. Both have areas where they're superior and inferior to each other. Overall, I'd take Usyk over Canelo, if I was manufacturing the more ideal boxer. Since Usyk seems to be better in more areas.
     
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