How Norton fought Foreman while he lost just before

Bolo, I actually thought he was being cynical.

 

This would have meant a lot more if Foreman had managed to put Chuck on the floor, but he stopped Wepner in three on cuts, just as Bugner would later do in a BBC televised match. (Immediately prior to Bugner, Liston did deck Chuck with a body shot en route to a bloody stoppage after nine.) Almost everybody cut Wepner. But only Buster Mathis (with a left hook in Wepner's eighth outing), Liston (with a massive driving right into Chuck's midsection which drove him down onto his backside - Wepner maintains that Sonny was a far harder puncher than George) and Ali (when the 35 y/o Chuck was utterly exhausted at the end of the Championship Distance) ever floored him to the best of my knowledge.

So far as I am concerned, a streaking Jerry Quarry should've gotten either Roman's or Norton's shot at Foreman. Jerry was actually well past his best by then, but styles make fights, and under Gil Clancy, he would've posed an extremely serious threat to the much slower and stamina compromised titleholder. Maybe that was the problem with Jerry, and his history with Ali.


Ali and Herbert Muhammad were all about building up a match (as was Kinshasa promoter Don King). Ali took Foreman after a huge buildup resulted in a huge payoff, then spent the early and mid part of 1975 building up Manila. (If JQ had beaten Frazier as many expected following Jerry's wins over Lyle and Shavers, Ali might've had a hard time building up a third bout between him and the Bellflower Bomber. He probably breathed a sigh of relief when Frazier prevailed with a masterpiece.)

 

Contrary to popular opinion … somehow… Kenny was a great choice for Foreman and was a perfect management move.
Ken was a viable choice that would make him money and legitimatise him but he was also Ken Norton.
Oscar Bonavena would’ve been a very fun fight to watch in 72-74 and Jerry Quarry when it mattered - In a perfect world for fans Foreman would’ve been built slowly and Archie Moore would’ve had more say but he had a great team who made him a lot of money.

 

Or how did Foreman get a shot at Moorer ?

 

Because he had name recognition, fan favoritism and dollar signs next to his name. That and the landscape of the division was such to where there was no clear #1. Remember in 1994 Tyson was gone. Holyfield was gone. Bowe hadn’t done much in the previous year except lose to Holyfield and nearly get himself DQ’d against Buster Mathis. McCall and Lewis had just fought a few months earlier with Lewis suffering an upset. While Foreman wasn’t necessarily the most deserving no one really was

 

There's loads of examples
Ron Lyle lost to Jimmy Young but then got a shot at Ali next.
How did Richard Dunn arrive on the Ali radar ?

 

Those guys were still better than Jose Roman but yes history is full of instances when horribly unqualified opponents got title shots. Pete Rademacher fighting Floyd Patterson in his debut showing may be the worst of them all

 

Tell Floyd Patterson (McNeely, Rademacher).

 

There is a lot of room between, “ranked contenders,” & the implication in your statement he fought very few meaningful opposition. There is no one like Frazier of course, but he certainly paid his dues.

 

I would certainly agree Quarry in his prime provides a deceptively dangerous match for Foreman, but in 1974? I wouldn’t think so.

 

Since it hasn’t been mentioned around Norton yet, Foreman has stated he was compelled to face Norton by the governing bodies. I don’t know the details first-hand (someone here might).

 

It's fair to question how well Jerry would've done against George in 1974, but he did beat Lyle and Shavers soundly through 1973, raising valid questions about what happens with Foreman. (Frazier was a different kettle of fish with JQ head to head, and their rematch was a Futch engineered masterpiece Clancy and Quarry didn't expect. But George would've offered no such surprises.)

When was Jerry at his peak? Possibly for Mathis, but Mac Foster was a monster win. He also destroyed Bodell's career in less than one minute, nearly decking Jack with his first punch three seconds in, bashing Bodell down with an uncredited KD at 50 seconds, then blasting him with the kill shot at 54 seconds. Granted, Jack didn't belong in the same ring with Jerry, but JQ was on fire, and his less vaunted right was unusually deadly in this one. (During the post fight interview not currently available on YouTube, Jerry is crowing about "the right I supposedly don't have! But he showed he knew how to deal with a southpaw through right leads, while also making Bodell miss during their brief torrid clash where Jack unloaded about 40 shots, albeit mostly jabs.)

 

Not that many give Quarry - at least peak Quarry - the chances we do but I have long thought he’d be more trouble than Foreman would have liked. I’d of course favour Foreman over any Quarry but it is by no means the mismatch many think.

 

Already commented on that later in the thread

 

This is a good question. Both Ali and Quarry should have been ahead of him at that point. I don't know if Ali wanted the Frazier rematch first, or what happened there. Quarry definitely wanted a shot at Foreman and had just beaten somewhat similar fighters in Lyle and Shavers. In the end Foreman decided on Norton in Caracas, where he was promised tax breaks (which he didn't get in the end).

It should be said that Norton probably earned further credibility in taking a very fit and motivated Ali to the brink. Even though he lost he showed that the first fight wasn't just a fluke. Quarry should have been better positioned with beating big punchers like Lyle and Shavers, though, but I have a feeling that that's the reason he didn't get it. Foreman has himself said he wanted no part of him.