How would prime Earnie Shavers do against prime Ray Mercer in 15 rounds?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, May 21, 2021.

  1. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,837
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    But who really is a great 1 punch Ko artist at HW?
    Even Wilder weakened guys with illegal rabbit punches, fought largely "winos from the alley"...Although he has a great wight hand.
    Guys who had a great record of early KOs, Briggs, Shavers...It is still not the usual to get a top fighter out of there with a single shot.

    And the better the competition, the less likely it is.
    Does not mean Shavers did not have hellacious power.
    Without the greatest efficiency or finishing skills...

    But the only way he might not hit the hardest ever-in sheer force, not effect, which is much better with combinations & accuracy...
    Is if an occasional SHW *might* hit harder.
    But at ~6', 210lbs., Shavers at least likely hit harder pound for pound then any HW.
    And maybe in absolute terms.
     
    Gatekeeper and JohnThomas1 like this.
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,653
    Likes Received:
    16,584
    Shavers punch that floored Holmes was harder than any shots Lewis or Tommy landed on Ray, Lewis didn`t seem to be getting much into his shots v Ray, it was a sloppy performance, Steard hadn`t quite turned the boat around yet, it was a messy fight.
     
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,653
    Likes Received:
    16,584
    These shots were tighter and shorter than Foreman`s and look at the effect on the fighters legs:
    This content is protected
     
    Gatekeeper likes this.
  4. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,653
    Likes Received:
    16,584
    Shavers put Ellis down for the count with a powerful single right uppercut to the chin. The time was 2:39 in the first round.
     
  5. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Messages:
    14,882
    Likes Received:
    19,168
    At HW Tyson, Tua, Wilder (crap competition though), Lennox, Wlad. Those would be my top picks.

    Well, at 210 Shavers would probably cut to CW these days, so if we measure him on those terms his power was indeed extremely good. In fact he might be the heaviest punching CW ever.

    In absolute terms no he falls short.
     
  6. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Messages:
    14,882
    Likes Received:
    19,168
    Lewis didn’t show his best vs Mercer, but Morrison was throwing the kitchen sink at him. Not only single detonating punches, but combinations. If that’s not putting him away then nothing Shavers throws at him would be likely to either. And the way Mercer fights, constantly coming forward and smothering with wrestling and short chopping punches, it’s not going to give Shavers the best range or opportunity to load up with a big OH right.
     
    Entaowed likes this.
  7. Gatekeeper

    Gatekeeper Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Gotta go with Mercer, if Shavers was an unknown then he might catch an unprepared Ray cold and early but a full mentally and physically prepared Mercer with a clear gameplan would be just too tough, strong and skilled for Shavers.
     
  8. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,837
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    Those guys you name are among the hardest. I am not sure about Lewis, but not Tyson.
    Guys he fought hit harder. Bonecrusher, Ruddock, Bruno. Also likely old Foreman, Tua & Morrison from that era, maybe others.

    Remember that Tyson's punches had disproportionate impact-like Joe Louis-due to his speed. If blows are not seen coming they have more effect.
    Also these guys hit very accurately in a short time: a blazing combination to the right points will do more than single or double blows that are seen.
    EVen if they are say 5%-10% less forceful in the literal force of the individual blows.

    Why do you believe that Shavers might not have hit harder than anyone?
    That may be true, but since there is diminishing returns after a certain point, someone with freakish power at 210 could theoretically hit the hardest.
    Arguments about how effective the punches are to determine the very tippy=sop are useless.
    Since like in any good scienctific experiment, you need to get ri of the noise of other variables-workrate. Accuracy. Speed. etc...

    Anyone who fought Shavers, whether they lost consciousness or not, seems to have him as the hardest puncher.
    I am not aware of such unanimous opinions at HW, & it is rare at any division.

    Babe Ruth may actually have hit the furthest baseballs ever., even though he would not have been as dominant if reincarnated since the average player is clearly better.
    Bill Jenkinson measured & computed how far the balls (usually interrupted by hitting things) would have traveled.
    The same may be true of Steve Dalkowski in speed of pitching, although he was not at all big & never made the Major Leagues, everyone who saw him-including players & Managers who played in the Big Leagues-agreed on his speed, & the stories are incredible.

    Very rarely there are freakish outliers who may have been at the top of the heap...
    But the key is it needs to b in a trait where:

    1) Old training methods & technology can maximize or nearly top out ability.
    2) PEDs cannot make folks even better-at least for those at the apex.

    So this would never be true for weightlifting, since both factors can make one stronger.

    But it is possible that for throwing, hitting a ball or a person.
     
  9. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,653
    Likes Received:
    16,584
    No cruiser even comes close to Shavers power when you look at the effect of fighters legs when he hit them, no fighter at 200lbs or lighter could take those punches.
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  10. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,653
    Likes Received:
    16,584
    Shavers finished fighters with hooking combo`s with both hands and the punches swere short and sharp travelling only tiny distance to the target.