I don't have to produce anything ,I never said the fight was fixed. I have no conspiracy theory, nor interest in trying to persuade you to one. Believe what you want,and I'll do the same.
I've never heard (or heard of until now) that interview. I've always read both said the fight was on the up and up. Still, if there is no proof Carnera deserves the benefit of the doubt. What was Sharkey saying to the ref in the 4th when he dropped Carnera....."Oh God, make him get up or I am really screwed!!"?
If you're referring to length of reign by time, Primo was in the Guinness Book as the shortest reigning heavyweight champion until Leon Spinks, but there should have always been an asterisk there, just as there should have been for the record long length of the reign of Louis which stood for all divisions. Primo risked it three times within a year, while Joe was inactive for four years due to wartime service. Carnera was the ONLY heavyweight champion to put it on the line three times inside a one year span between 1910 and 1938 (actually, he did it inside of eight months), and also the only man to win three heavyweight title bouts inside of a year during that 28 year interval. If Fitz, Willard, Dempsey and Braddock rightfully get slammed by sitting on it for two years or more of inactivity (and throw in Jimmy Ellis between 1968 and 1970 if you feel like it), then Primo should get full credit for being the only one to take it out of mothballs between 1910 (Johnson-Jeffries) and 1938 (Louis-Thomas). (Likewise, with reference to my suggested asterisk for the hiatus of Louis between March 1942 and June 1946, Holmes should also be acknowledged for successfully defending it in eight consecutive calendar years, from Evangelista in 1978 to Carl Williams in 1985. I believe that was also a record for all divisions at the time, as the Bomber's 25 defenses and nearly dozen years as champion were. Not Joe's fault he couldn't go beyond six years from 1937 to 1942, but it is what it is. Likewise for other WW II inactivated reigning champions like Zale, who also got in the Guinness Book for MW Title longevity by way of this.) Primo is the only undisputed heavyweight champion to dethrone a reigning titleholder, and then successfully defend the championship, who is eligible for the IBHOF and not enshrined. (In fact, only he and Marvin Hart remain excluded among the undisputed HW Champions who predate Leon Spinks.) Braddock got in a decade ago, Ingo reached Canastota back in 2002, Max Baer in 1995, Sharkey in 1994, and Willard in 2003. Was the reign of Carnera really ten to 15 years or more worse than the reigns of those five? (I realize Sharkey and Baer were impressive as contenders, but how do the overall careers of Ingo, Willard and Braddock measure up?)
Ernie had no business getting out of a hospital bed with influenza to attempt this (and I cringed when Don Curry later won a match despite having the flu with Carnera-Schaaf in mind), but it wasn't Primo's fault that Ernie insisted, "A contract is a contract!" He did stop the then 43-3-5 Walter Neusel on cuts in four rounds for his comeback after Louis, and the final significant win of his career. A dive might be faked, blood drawn in mid round, not so much. At face value, I think the Neusel win is a respectable enough result. Only Schmeling had stopped Der Blonde Tiger in his previous 51 bouts (taking nine rounds to do it in 1934), and a rising Tommy Farr would be the only other opponent to stop Neusel in the first dozen years and 71 matches of the German's career. Neusel had previously defeated Loughran (proving he could overcome a great jab), Impellitiere (showing he could handle an opponent of Carnera's stature), and Larry Gains over the championship distance. In his first fight after Carnera (after which he took a year off), he would beat Ben Foord over the championship distance in London. He would go on to knock out Heuser 2X, decision Tandburg, retire Schmeling after the war, and draw with Ten Hoff over 12 in 1949 (again showing that he could hold his own with a skilled opponent of modern super heavyweight stature). If it hadn't been for Hitler and the Nazis, Neusel may well have gotten a shot at Louis. (WW II was costly to German contenders like Neusel, Heuser and Vogt. It was a good era for Deutschland at 175 and HW.)
Primo was not an impresive heavyweight to watch but because of his sheer size and gameness he was effective at the top level. simply put carnera was a beter champion than given credit for if only because of his size advantage. His big fights were all genuine, he earned his shot and knocked out a lineer champion legitimatly. It is true that because primo was a circus attraction he was taken on tour in the tank towns because the demand was there. If ever there was a fighter who could sell against poor oposition it was carnera. managers will keep booking low risk fights for their boxer for as long as they can get away with it and there is still a profit in it for a promoter. There were that many towns on the road who wanted to see primo regardless of oposition but they were not fixed fights. they were just ludicrous mismatches against less than willing oposition. These "barn stormer" opponents showed no desire at all and were likley paid peanuts since they knew they were not the atraction. george foremans son is fighting the same guys now!
The interview was given to Peter Heller in June 1971 in Sharkey's home,in Epping New Hampshire.It was a taped interview and was for Heller's book "In This Corner".I recommend the book.
More than anybody else, I blame Paul Gallico and Budd Schulberg. "Pity the Poor Giant" and "The Harder They Fall," became the "official" history of Carnera's boxing career, then inherited and carried forward by the likes of Bert Sugar, despite there being no dispute of the legitimacy of his successful defenses against former Max Baer conquerors Uzcudun and Loughran. According to the rapidly diluted standards of the IBHOF (which ridiculously inducted Norton just two years after they opened), I think Primo will eventually get enshrined, as the reality of what he did on film becomes increasingly viewed on services like youtube, and overrides the second and third hand information of after-the-fact scribes and storytellers who were previously able to act as the gatekeepers to what information was available on Carnera. Few who have watched the entirety of Carnera-Sharkey II question the legitimacy of that win, or Primo's level of improvement from their first bout. In 102 fights, Carnera was never counted out. His heart in hopeless situations, like Sharkey I, in the stoppage to Louis, and over ten rounds on a bad wheel against Baer (which sent him to the hospital), leave little doubt that he had guts which others rated far over him were lacking. He defeated Sharkey nemesis Jim Maloney with a broken rib, and stood up to Godfrey's bombs. (Owney Madden allegedly claimed on his death bed that Carnera-Godfrey was fixed, but the extant footage indicates that Godfrey was making a valid effort to win. I don't think Primo's countless detractors ever imagined all boxing fans would one day have the opportunity to view his substantial action footage for themselves.) The tide, I believe, is finally starting to turn in his favor. He had a good jab and decent mobility, which other similarly sized heavyweights of his era like Buddy Baer lacked. He produced legitimate wins over some of the few opponents taller than himself, like Campolo and Impellitiere, suggesting that he wasn't wholly dependent on a size advantage to win.
Few who have watched Larry Gains easily outbox Carnera in 1932 ,would find him beating Jack Sharkey in 1933 credible ,imo Nowadays fans try and tell you Carnera was outboxing Baer and ahead on rounds despite being floored 10 times.Carnera won 3 rounds at most. I'm 62 maybe ,if I stay healthy I will get to see Primo lauded as a great champ yet.atsch
I gave Primo rounds four, five, six and nine from the currently available footage (which I just reviewed). He also took the first two minutes of round ten, which Max pulled out with last minute knockdowns. Based on what I saw, it's entirely plausible Carnera also took rounds seven and eight in lieu of any knockdowns by Baer, which would actually make their bout 6-4 in rounds for Carnera entering round 11, and nearly 7-3 by virtue of what almost happened in round ten. Yes, Max was in control from the moment Primo sprained his ankle in the opening round, but he blew the middle rounds from four to nine, just as he'd blow the title a year later. Many happy returns. You've already got Primo beat by two years. (62 doesn't seem very old when Mamby can compete at 60.) I've watched all the footage you discuss here. Gains was seven months after Sharkey I, and Primo's last legitimate defeat before winning the title. (Yeah, yeah, I know, how many of his wins were legitimate?) But he got the best of the undefeated Lasky, and rematches over Poreda (where he was reportedly robbed by referee Joe Mangold, who got suspended by ringside commissioner George E. Keenen) and King Levinski over the distance. Empire Champion Gains was then still near his peak, and failed to take the big man down or out. In fact, although Gains dominated, it was Carnera who decked him! (And I just replayed that footage. Larry didn't fall on his haunches and right glove because of a shove or a trip, but courtesy of a right aided by a follow up left by Primo coming out of a neutral corner. Gains was up at referee's Jack Hart's count of one.) 2:07. (Replay it as many times as desired. Granted, a flash knockdown which embarrassed Gains more than anything, but clearly legit, hence the inclusion in the highlight film.) [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO0cndcdeY0[/ame] Following Gains, Carnera remained active with 19 more bouts prior to Sharkey, allowing considerable opportunity for improvement. By contrast, he had nine matches between Sharkey I and Gains. (Larry, on the other hand, couldn't get past McCorkindale and Neusel after Primo, which may well have cost him a shot at the world crown in a rematch.) Certainly not a great fighter by any stretch, but I do think he was a brave and good active champion.
HIS REIGN WAS BETTER THAN AVERAGE, HE BEAT A VERY GOOD CHAMPION(LEGIT i THINK BUT i'LL NEVER BE SURE-dAmn caPLock!-) one reasonable contender Loughran and an overated and slipping Uzcuden and the fought the top contender, all in about a year. Think Haye beating Wlad defending against Adamick and Rachman, then losing to Vitali, all in a year? Pretty good and I'm no Carnera fan as far as his resume goes but he was one of the bravest and nicest champs. the problem I have with him are Leon See's confession, which I believe is credible, and contrasting that with the for sure legit wins over Neussel and Loughran, for example. When I saw him on film after years of reading all the negative stuff, I was surprised how good he was.