I find it hard to split HAGLER & ARGUELLO !

We all were.

But no one was calling Hagler SHOT, which means your "reasoning" for why Leonard mustn't have been shot is completely undermined.

Yes, quite a few people did, actually.

Speak for yourself. I bet on Norris to win, and I knew others that did too. Norris was given the same small shot against Leonard as Leonard had been against Hagler. You can't make a point about one guy's role as the underdog and then ignore the other's.

 

anyone who cant see it must be blind so to help them out I refer to the conversation between Clancy and Ryan in round 6. You know, the famous one!

Re Leonard in the Norris fight, one can easily see the progression throughout the fight that reflexes had nothing to do with his downfall. Terry drilled him-he fell apart. It was that simple. Too many people here at ESB discount the effect of taking blows, thinking it is so easy on paper but the fact is when you have a guy like Terry who gets his shots off first, most of the time it's reasonalbe to assume that he's going to kick your ass as long as you can stand it

 

Then according to your "logic", the entire universe must be blind, because no one was calling Hagler "shot" coming into that fight.

"In Round 6" is not BEFORE the fight. YOU said you wouldn't believe people saying a fighter is "shot" (which Clancy/Ryan didn't outright say anyway) unless they said it BEFORE the fight. If you can't find a conversation between Gil and Ryan (or anyone else) denoting Hagler as shot BEFORE the fight, your whole "logic" here comes undone.

No. There was no conversation between Gil and Ryan that was "famous" in that fight, except perhaps in your own mind.

LOL, this post here completely contradicts itself. First you say that reflexes weren't the deciding factor in the fight, then you say the fight is decided by who has the ability to react first. atsch If Norris relies on "getting off first" as the way to beat Leonard, that means that even the slightest decline in Leonard's reflexes tips the scales heavily in Norris' favor, which makes it probably the most important factor of all in the fight.

 

Well if that's what will convince you, then here it is:


These are from the NY Times, February 9, 1991, the morning before the fight.

"But in recent bouts Leonard has appeared vulnerable to time and other men's ambition. He has suffered knockdowns and has been cut, and there are signs in Leonard's eyes that have some observers believing he is headed for a fall."
-Phil Berger

"Ray Leonard is pushing it by taking on me. His good days are behind him."
-Terry Norris

--------------------

Nice to see this matter has been settled.

 

:good

 

And Rooter takes another whupping.

 

:happy:happy Rooster been PWNED.

 

redrooster the fool

 

You know you Hagler fans are soooooooooo pathetic. Yes I understand Leonard got his ass kicked by Norris and Camacho..........so what he was old. But then you guys want to say Hagler was old when he fought Leonard and past his prime......well SRL was past his prime too then, and he gave Hagler a boxing lesson.

The real fact is Hagler wasn't that good. He made a career of fighting blown up LWs & WWs.......the MW division was as weak as it has ever been when Hagler reigned. Who did Hagler take the title from...Minter? Another southpaw chump and from Britian...give me a break.......Hagler could not even beat Antoufermo convincingly to get the title....and you guys say he could box? You are all delusional. Sugar Ray and any one who knew boxing knew SRL would make Hagler look the chump.....because he was a chump. His boxing skills were poor at best. You don't get to be a ATG MW by beating the likes of "Caveman Lee", Tony Sibson, or Mustafa Hamsho (another goofy southpaw),and the list goes on.......

Hagler had SRL hand him his ass, because this great champion Hagler never learned the boxing basics on how to step either to the right or left, and cut the ring off, pathetic really for a "champion" . So he spent 12 rounds stumbling after SRL looking the amatuer...... those who know boxing knew Hagler wasn't much in the skills department. He was a banger who came to fight in shape, but he was not a boxer, counter puncher or in anyway up to SRL in skill level in the sweet science......now had SRL been a natural MW he kicks Hagler's ass all day, everyday. Superior hand speed and foot work and decent power, Hagler could never handle it, and SRL showed it by coming out of retirement to beat Hagler......If that fight was prime on prime and both fighters were naturally MW......I would pick Leonard everytime. It would be a no brainer.:good

Hagler wasn't that good.:yep

 

Could you show the enitre article? I'm interested in knowing how the writer concludes the article and his final opinion. You know, BEFORE the fight :smoke

 

John, looks like you've spoken too soon. But we know this isnt the first time

 

and what do you base this on...the whupping Ray Leonard took from another fighter two weight classes below him? :!:

 

Who Camacho?

You think if Leonard wasn't old that Camacho beats him? You think prime on prime Norris beats Ray........? You think Camacho beats Ray Leonard prime on prime? :blood

So then what would Camacho have done to Hagler if we use your logic?

Now back to topic.......

Hagler wasn't that good he only fought in 1 division.

And for people to say Hagler rates above the late great ARGUELLO is just boxing blasphemy and stupidity!!:-(

 

Him too but I was talking about Duran. You were feeling pretty high praising leonard with that prime on prime bs until I brought up the Duran fight :yep

a 29 year old past his prime beats a 24 year old in his :tong

Now let's do this again..the RIGHT WAY

Leonard wasnt that good :good

 

Duran was in his prime when he beat Leonard.........Duran was just up one weight division. There is a difference...... Experience counts in boxing at times...... You see I was never a big SRL fan, but he was was good, and you have to give him his due......and Camacho beat Duran too.......so he is another victim of the "Macho Camacho".

Your prime Hagler in 1983 I think fought Duran like a *****, he was practically shitting his pants when he should have been all over the blown up Duran, he was afraid....... which makes my point that Hagler made a career out of fighting smaller guys.

Name me all the big name MWs Hagler beat, who will ever be remembered as decent MWs?