If Cus D'amato had lived.......

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Azzer85, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    No D'amato and Jacobs were smart enough to let King promote Tyson on a fight by fight basis and align themselves with HBO independently. King needed Tyson more than Tyson needed King in the 80's. King made more money promoting Tyson through Jacobs and Cayton than he did his list of no name champs fighting each other. Sure King would have continued to try and get Tyson beat, just as he did leading up to the tournament, but Tyson kept winning.

    Being around boxing people is better than being around friends who dont understand the importance of being prepared or have the control to make him train the way they want him to. Maybe Tyson would have possibly matured quicker had he lost or had some shaky moments under those people. Nonetheless, its still better to be trained and handled by experienced people rather than nieve friends thats pretty obvious.
     
  2. bartkiwi

    bartkiwi Member Full Member

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    Who says Tyson didn't reach his potential? Undisputed baddest man on the planet...
    The fact is when he youth/speed deserted him, as well as guys figuring stratergies to beat him etc, his time at the top became numbered.
    I agree that while he may have stayed on the rails for longer had Cus be around he eventually would have rebelled.
     
  3. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    A lot of people believe his potential was to be the greatest heavyweight of all time. I tend to agree had he stayed on course. The big fights against the better fighters were coming as he reached his best.
     
  4. bartkiwi

    bartkiwi Member Full Member

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    I don't think Tyson could be that disappointed in his career really, the fact that people still think of him as the CHAMP testifies to that.
    Riddick Bowe is the one who could be disappointed looking back
     
  5. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Yes Bowe was one of the great talents that really screwed himself by not taking things seriously. True Tyson accomplished alot, but he could have dont a lot more in my opinion.
     
  6. Thats gotta be one of the most ignorant comments ever posted on this website.
     
  7. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tyson accomplished more than Bowe. Bowe should be pretty ashamed, because he could have done a lot more with his career, he also didnt have the excuse that his mentor had died unlike Tyson.

    If Tyson had stayed on track, beaten Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis and some of the other big names of the 90s and then self destructed....how high would he rank then? GOAT?
    If not, what would Tyson have had to do to achieve GOAT?
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I agree that Tyson was always heading for destruction.

    On the other hand, Tysons period of focus does not have to be extended verry far to bump him a few noches up everybodys hjeavyweight list.

    Another few good title defences could have made a difference.
     
  9. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    i agree, with Bowe, Holyfield and a green Lewis around the corner, things could have been so different.
     
  10. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I disagree. King would never have frozen tyson out of the title picture because he made a lot of money co promoting Tyson fights with Jacobs and Cayton.

    Secondly the whole reason Tyson unified the titles was because King had to let Tyson into the unification tournament. He realised with no Tyson, the tournament would hold little weight. Cayton/Jacobs done a great job promoting Tyson, there was no way King could keep Tyson in the dark.
     
  11. PbP Bacon

    PbP Bacon ALL TIME FAT Full Member

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    I agree with the "King not freezing Tyson" scenario. Tyson was a gold mine and King was not going to say no to all that money.

    Tyson was going to get caught by his inner demons and implode soon or later; but with Cus alive, Tyson's implosion would have been delayed enough to put some more layers on his legacy. Furthermore, With Cus alive, Tyson's fall, even happening, could have been a lot less extreme.

    For all his greatness as a boxer, I am not sure Tyson cracks the top 10 ATG HW. Had Cus lived longer, perhaps Tyson would be now a solid top 5, or even going head to head with Ali and Louis for GOAT.
     
  12. round15

    round15 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sorry but I don't know if I can buy into this. The documentaries I've seen on D'Amato and Tyson practically represent a Father/Son relationship. In fact, Mike's behaviour was far from the train wreck he was about to become just shortly after winning the title. Mike was concerned for Cus' health that was in decline at the time. Jose Torres and Teddy Atlas spoke sincerely about Tyson's respect for Cus, his behaviour and dedication to training.

    It was only after that first "wretched swine of a woman," Robin Givens , entered the picture that the Tyson camp because a circus act beyond recognition. The second "wretched swine of a woman," Desiree Washington just nailed Tyson in the coffin with her mother's help. Givens had already left enough residual damage.

    Yes, D'Amato was no Saint and neither was Tyson, but to say that Cus was just in it for the money is wrong. The man took Tyson off the streets of New York and let him stay in his house. That's not just all about making money. That shows care for someone who has loads of talent which Mike had, and doesn't want to let it go to waste which unfortunately happened.
     
  13. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Custus D. would've eventually lost control of Tyson by 1988 or 1989... Once Tyson became filthy rich by HBO and started hiring his homies into camp, Custus D. would've let Tyson go.... Mansions, Cars and Broads have a way of killing a good thing... D'Amato would've walked away by 1989...

    I don't think Custus would've maintained his grip once Tyson started becoming a huge celebrity with cash... And with Don King lurking, Tyson was doomed... Tyson fell apart in 1990 / '91...

    MR.BILL:deal:bbb:shock:
     
  14. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The funny thing is, if you read Tysons autobiography, there is a chapter on Cus. Cus had this paranoia with all of his fighters, he was very protective of them because he felt other people were constantly trying to steal his fighters, he had this lifelong paranoia.

    Secondly Cus gave Tyson numerous lessons about women, distractions, the coward and the hero stories....and Tyson still self destructed....tut tut all that potential.
     
  15. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I respect the late Custus D'Amato as much as anybody, but, I am bothered that Patterson & Torres whined at times that Cus skimmed lotsa' money off the top from several purses...

    If Cus skimmed from Floyd and Jose, he'd skim even more from Mike--had he lived...

    Odd thing is, the 1995 HBO film "Tyson" depicts Cus D'Amato needing money while training fighters up in the Catskills at Camile Ewald's sizable home...

    MR.BILL