If Greb footage is found and it is mediocre how would it change your view of his opposition??

I can’t find any articles about the commission overturning the verdict … or really anything about an investigation actually taking place at all.

Can someone provide a link on the fight being overturned?

Also, why doesn’t Tunney get more credit for his humanitarian side for backing off in their final fight after Greb begged him not to knock him out? Seems like a great gesture of respect on a pitiable foe, yet we don’t see much acknowledgement of his sportsmanship … I guess people wanted him to be a savage rather than a gentleman and finish Harry off. But that’s not the kind of guy Gene was.

 

Jokic is athletic, but it is his IQ and strength not to mention fast hands that enable his superior performance.

 

You open up an interesting issue here.

A historian might hop up and down asserting all kinds of things that he wasn't there for. And which might be every bit as controversial as "Greb was robbed."

For example: Were Sacco and Vanzetti guilty? Did the court get it right?

Or: Who was the man who returned to Martin Guerre's village? Was he actually Martin Guerre?

 

Sacco and Venzetti’s first trial ended in a no contest. Newspaper decisions favored the prosecution.

Their murder tried ended in a unanimous decision for the prosecution. There were protests and such but over time most newsmen have tended to favor it as a just verdict although not necessarily a fair trial — the equivalent of saying, for example, that Leonard did deserve the decision over Hagler but maybe disagreeing on the round by round scoring.

 

I keep seeing people refer to a commission investigation into the Tunney decision over Greb. But nobody seems to point to anything on how that investigation turned out. Why is that?

 

But he is ony athletic compared to an average human.
And here is America the average person-ike much of the world, but we are not too far from the worst-is significantly overweight.

He is not at all atholetic for an NBA player.
He has a fairly fast 2nd step, but is overall SLOW.
And cannot jump much at all-"white man's disease" they used to call it good-naturedly.
He himself remarked how the scouting report on his unimpressive athleticism when he entered the NBA was "fair".

He has the fift of height & is pretty strong & big-without definition-but to elabborate upon his IQ-his court vision + preternatural understanding of where players & the ball will or should move, & having developed an excellent inside & outside game is by far the biggest virtue he has.

Related to that-his insane efficiency, his adjustments & the versatility of his game.

 

Well whether Greb won the second and fourth fights or not, it’s clear in those first four fights Greb essentially a middleweight gave a fighter of Tunney’s calibre fits.
That apart from his other stellar wins should be enough to convince people he was a fighter of the highest standing no matter how pleasing he was on the eye.

 

His reflexes, strength, hand speed, coordination and agility are top notch for an NBA player, jumping and running aren't the only attributes of athleticism. His endurance is insane as well.

 

Greb was too short to play in the NBA, and probably not a good enough shooter either — his vision problems would have been hell on depth perception from 3-point range.

 

I do not see his hand speed reflexes & coordination as "top notch" for the NBA: they are decent, but not measureably that fast.
Many otehr players could do what he does re: passing physically: IF they both had the court vision & anticipation he has.
And the ability to predict movement + the decisiveness & boldness to thread the needle.

He is pretty strong due to his overall size.
About his engine, it is good, but not "insane".
I have heard about him tiring sometimes in the 4th quarter, & he does not have the endurance of many much smaller men-who many move a lot more, which is tring-but yes for his size it is very good.

He agreed that his athleticism was not better than fair.
Lack of speed & jumping ability are not all important, but mean a lot, so must be factored in.
And coordination? Good, but succeeding despite often looking awakward & off-balance.

Even Jimmy Bulter is described as "not that athletic"-but that is reletaive to the NBA.
The Joker's outliar talents lie in bis B-Ball braiaian & willingness to be unselish & develop all aspects of his game.

 

Tell that to Muggsy Bogues, and Michael Jordan after Greb breaks his ankles

 

Spot on Cecil

 

He ranks as top 10 of all time when it comes to handspeed. Especially for a big man, his handspeed is a big difference maker. The stats were recorded.

https://revupsports.com/athletes/ba...scover/what-are-nikola-jokics-physical-stats/

I think maybe you are biased against Jokic, which clouds objectivity and prevents you from seeing his athleticism. It happens all the time. I am not saying Jokic is the most athletic Basketball player today, I am simply saying for a big man that weighs almost 300 pounds and is almost 7 foot, he is pretty athletic.

 

OK thanks, I had not heard this: "P3's 10.6 drill, which measures how fast an athlete can get their hand to a spot 10.6 feet off the ground, Jokic was in the top 10 of all time".
I would like to see the direct evidence of this, since your link is not completely accurate on everything.
For example, it falsely says that his size 14 shoes (small for his height), are among the larger ones in the NBA.
NO! It is a bit shy of size 15, I recall 14.81, & even folks who do not know the stats often know that for the NBA 14 is not big/below average.

So I am open to Jokic being that fast of hand, but he does not appear THAT fast to me, & want to confirm that test.
However if he was, that still does not tell me if in the almost decade since many other players have exceeded his score.
If it was a new test, it is especially likely that it had a small sample size then, so a high placement overrate relative speed if not looking at all-time stats for it.

But again-maybe.

Yet you did shift the goalposts.
Now you are introducing that he is pretty athletic

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That is a different matter, & I would say that may be correct.
Throuble is we need to subtract for speed & jumping ability too-he is not good for his size there-but it may well average out to "pretty athletic" for his size, although nowhere near a Shaq-although The Joker is far more skilled overall!

As for the bias you suspect, that may not be you being particularly cynical.
But you are used to so many looking non-objectively & emotionally based upon "homerism" + who they identify with!
I'm not like that-I like to dissect things as carefully as possible.

AND if anything if you know how I feel about him you could suspect me wrongly of the opposite bias lol!
Because I like him a great deal-as a player & a man.
EASILY the best in the NBA the last 3 years.
Robbed of the last MVP due to an absurd media campaign where Embid & minions lobbied hard because he could not stand not getting it.
But advanced stats are EXCELLENT indicators.
Player efficiency ratio(last year shattered the all-time record), win shares, WS per 48 minutes, Value Over Replacement Player, Box +/-...
Jokic absolutely

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I looked carefully at his post season stats.
For all the praise he earned, I noticed that they were actually marginally lower than his regular season!
Even relative to his own performance this is still excellent-because the lesser teams are eliminated, it seems to me that the typical P.S. is no more than 90-95% as good.
Only the likely 2 GOATS, Jordan & LeBron, do better in the P.S.

Only thing The Joker is relatively lacking in compared to other ATGs (although due to lesser competition Wilt & Jabberworky shall always be #1 in say Win Shares, & the thing that keeps Joker a little on the low side, & he shall never likely reach the level of Kevin Durant or even Shaq's best, let alone Air Jordan or King James...
Is total Win Shares.
Mainly because the trend is no longer to have seasons where players hit 3000, used to be occ. 3500 or so minutes a year!

And he is a really good, humble, unselfish, very dedicated to his team + funny guy.