If Jeffries Had Re-matched Fitz Earlier?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jun 14, 2016.


  1. Ringrat

    Ringrat Amateur Full Member

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    Maybe they were, but compared to what? Ed Dunkhorst and Yank Kenny? I have no agenda here unlike yourself. I'm stating fact based on contemporary accounts of both men. Sharkey was a crude brawler who was repeatedly sanctioned for foul tactics like hitting a guy when he was down, using his head, throwing a guy through the ropes, etc. He was known for an amazing ability to take punishment and a hard left hook if he could land it. As for Ruhlin, read the newspaper reports yourself when you find your glasses. He looked good in some fights and horrible in others. If you think otherwise you have exposed yourself as someone who really knows very little about the period.

    'nuff said.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Kenney was a Jack Johnson sparring partner
    ,Dunkhorst one for Fitz and Jeffries among others, neither were ever contenders by any stretch of the imagination .

    Ridiculous comparison.

    Your statement,I won't call it an argument because it has no relevance to my question ,is a spurious one and not only does not address the subject it wilfully ignores it!.
    The abilities of Ruhlin and Sharkey are irrelevant, they were the leading contenders., that is irrefutable.
    Q . If you ko'd the two top contenders in the space of a fortnight ,and you have already ko'd the only other class men[ Corbett,Goddard,Choynsky & Maher ,] would that then make you the the leading contender or not? Simple question . Simple answer required.
    Here's another:

    Q. If it does not make you the leading contender who merits that position in your place?

    Oh, and Ill match my knowledge of the period against yours any day ,and twice on Sundays!

    I at least know Jeannette lost to Jim Johnson twice!
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Perhaps the author of the thread is asking whether Fitzsimmons could have won in a different scenario, in which case I could suggest the following:

    Let’s say that the Fitzsimmons who defended his title against an inexperienced Jeffries, had trained like the Fitzsimmons of the second fight, and more importantly had used the same tactics as the Fitzsimmons of the second fight.

    In that scenario I could see it as being possible, but that was never going to happen for obvious reasons.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm asking, given that Fitz beat the sh*t out of Jeffries for 8 rds in their return match ,could he have done even better had he fought him 2 years earlier when he was on top form ,evidenced by him koin'g the two leading contender inside a two weeks time-span?
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Probably not.

    The day Fitzsimmons was finished, was always going to be the day he met a bigger man who could take his most evil finishing move, and keep coming right back at him.

    Once Jeffries could fight on the front foot, he owned the title.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't have a real problem with this an*lysis.

    Except do you discount the possibility of Jeffries being stopped because of facial damage ? Fitz reduced his face to raw hamburger. Fitz's hands went on him in that fight , perhaps 2 years earlier they might have been in better shape?


    The reports of their second fight say Jeffries won because of two things, his size and his youth.
     
  7. Contrndeh

    Contrndeh New Member Full Member

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    Jun 12, 2016
    Excellent question!

    It would have been a better win in 1900, raised his historical stock by a bit.
    But all the criticisms would still be there.
    Jeffries was a good learner, he is always better in his rematches.

    What was fitz doing at the time? Who defeats two top contenders in the same month, then disappears?

    Did one of his wives leave him?

    If anyone here lives in Chicago, Fitz is buried in Graceland as is Jack Johnson and well worth the visit

    Cops, stopping an exhibition that was gonna go down between John l
    And Ruby, who does that???
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He was always better in rematches?Really?
    How did he do better against Sharkey in their rematch?
    Both fights went the distance and both were close.
    Jeffries beat Fitz convincingly in their first fight.

    Fitz broke his nose and bruised and cut him above both eyes in the rematch which would have been stopped today.
    Hype Igoe who was ringside said it was a worse beating than Dempsey gave Willard..
    Jeffries improved on his first performance against Corbett who was in front after 23 rds but by then Corbett was well past it ,was 2 weeks off his 37th birthday and had not fought in 3 years!

    Fitzsimmons challenged Jeffries from the ring he had ko'd the two leading contenders and scored 2 other kos in his 4 fights in 1900 .

    Who of any class was out there that he hadn't beaten?

    What more did he need to do to earn a shot?

    Don't you think that after Fitz had ko'd Sharkey and Ruhlin in a total of 8rds,[ something Jeffries was unable to do in 2 tries at each, ]Jeffries and he would have drawn a huge gate?

    Here's a question for your question.
    Who ko's the two leading contenders inside two weeks asks for a title shot from the ring ,saying he will be ready to challenge inside 6 months,yet doesn't get one for two years because the champion is busy defending against two men he has already ko'd?

    ps I'll be in NY in July but alas not Chicago, otherwise I would certainly visit Graceland and their graves.