How many of his challengers did he," render unconscious?" Actually NONE! Walcott was in the act of rising in the second fight, as was Charles. ****ell was on his feet. Moore was sitting in his own corner ,getting to his knees when he was counted out, fully conscious. Lastarza was stopped on his feet. Moore ,Charles,****ell,and Lastarza were gradually ground down and stopped ,fully conscious after a steady bombardment of punches. Walcott likely quit in the 2nd fight and he too was fully conscious.. Anyone who beleives any of Marciano's challengers were rendered unconscious by him, just has a pro Marciano agenda!:deal
Knocked out Bobick in the amateurs. And Bobick was much better than him and was only stopped by Stevenson...after Lyle sparked him.
Yes. Okay. I didn't say I didn't believe it. I just said it wasn't convincing evidence. Both sources indicate teeth were knocked out, but to me it isn't very important. What is important is that Layne seemed to be all right until he was knocked cold with one right hand. "you're happy to believe anything that bolsters your case" And you're not? If anyone can be accused to making an any stick will do to beat this dog case, it just might be you.
"Hostak--Zale--Overlin" Pretty tough standard here. Zale was the middleweight champion and at his peak. The year he beat Hostak, Overlin also beat Ezzard Charles. I stick with beating the ex-champion Hostak was a strong showing for a 19 year old. Hostak would still be rated as high as #6 by The Ring five years later, in 1947. "Moore, Maxim, Morrow, Johnson, Pompey, Hall, Sands, Slade, Smith, Turpin, Satterfield, Bucceroni, Barone." Interestingly, the champion Maxim only fought two of these men, and only Satterfield prior to the time Matthews moved up to heavyweight. How many did the champion Freddie Mills fight? Moreover, Maxim was considered to be ducking Matthews until Matthews beat Layne and therefore became a player at heavyweight, when the IBC suddenly spun on a dime to offer Matthews a shot at Maxim to divert him from the heavies. It might be pointed out also that Sands was a middleweight and rated in that division, and Bucceroni and Barone were Ko'd by Murphy and Nardico respectively. "Murphy" Murphy actually was the betting favorite against Maxim, but could be outboxed as both Matthews and Maxim proved. Spin it whichever way, but against their common foes, Murphy and Nardico, both highly rated, Matthews in my opinion did slightly better. Nardico had Maxim down. I consider Matthews even money against Maxim and probably a favorite against Mills if he could have gotten a shot at them. Moore was not the champion until after Matthews left the division. "Bob Foster" The difference is that Matthews defeated top heavyweight Rex Layne. Foster never defeated a top heavyweight. "why get beat by Archie Moore or Maxim for the lhvy title when you can get ko'd by Marciano" And if Hurley made the fight knowing that Matthews had no chance, why did he go ballistic in the dressing room in front of reporters about how Matthews let him down? Anyway, Moore aside, I think it is quite a stretch off their respective records to claim Matthews did not have a good chance against Maxim.
Actually I'm playing devil's advocate, in the hope some will challenge the accepted " truisms", and oft repeated mantras. It isn't important to me one way or another. What I would like people to do is sit down and actually watch Marciano against Moore, ****el,l Walcott ,Lastarza and Charles.Notice how many punches he lands on them throughout the course of the fights, full blooded swings, many of them taken flush on the jaw and realise that they are still standing ,and still fighting back. How is this possible if Rocky is all they believe he is? Isn't it a good idea to ponder such matters, think outside the box on occasion? Why must that necesssarilly make me a hater? Its puerile and childish to conclude such.
He Flat KO'd and almost killed the 6"4 tough Carmine Vingo,He flat one punch ko'd the 34-1-1 Rex Layne who was never stopped before and Layne fought Bob SATTERFIELD (WHO ko'D 31-1 BIG CAT WILLIAMS. He set up the KO for Joe Louis but it was the last right hand Bomb that KO'd Louis past his best but still formidable with his 66-2 record. The 2nd Charles fights shows and in the ring destruction with murderous power, a horrible beating over a tough Charles but Charles body and mind had memory like Walcott. Even Ali said when sparring with the older Rock that the man could hit and Moore said he hurt you with everything and Louis said he hurt to bump into you. Marciano was small had a short reach, could be out boxed, could be hit but he was a freak that rose to the occasion, he had physical strengths and interior strength but possibly the best was the complete package and he was the hardest hitter LB for LB in his division ever
Mills was a brave mauler but really a cheese champion in the right place at the right time, he shouldn't have gotten a title shot after being wrecked by Marshall. Mathews may have beaten Maxim, I doubt it but its possible , why take a chance when you can fight Marciano for a better purse? Sands was the 6th rated lightheavyweight in1947 and the 4th in 1948. I don't spin, you made a point of showing Mathews was unbeaten at LHvy I showed that being dominant at175lbs means jack **** and gave two examples to back up my premise Foster and Lewis. Mathews was the number 2 challenger behind Moore at number one, in1950 they reversed in 51 and in 1952 Moore was champ ,and Mathews was number 3. I think I've answered your underlined bits.
Marciano never rendered unconscious: ANY OF HIS CHALLENGERS. IS THIS TRUE ,YES OR NO? IF YOU CAN'T BRING YOURSELF TO GIVE THE CORRECT AND HONEST ANSWER, RESORT TO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS.US BITTER AND TWISTED OLD UN's CAN TAKE IT ,AND WE CAN DISH IT OUT TOO:bbb
Raising the bar now? How many men did Tyson or Foreman render unconscious? Zero as far as I know! Jeffries rendered a few men unconscious, but we know you think his power is over rated. Amazing, both Marciano and Jeffries retired un-defeated, and you're their biggest critics. Gee I wonder why.... If you were wise you would let this thread sink into obscurity.
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post "Hostak--Zale--Overlin" Pretty tough standard here. Zale was the middleweight champion and at his peak. The year he beat Hostak, Overlin also beat Ezzard Charles. I stick with beating the ex-champion Hostak was a strong showing for a 19 year old. Hostak would still be rated as high as #6 by The Ring five years later, in 1947. "Moore, Maxim, Morrow, Johnson, Pompey, Hall, Sands, Slade, Smith, Turpin, Satterfield, Bucceroni, Barone." Interestingly, the champion Maxim only fought two of these men, and only Satterfield prior to the time Matthews moved up to heavyweight. How many did the champion Freddie Mills fight? Moreover, Maxim was considered to be ducking Matthews until Matthews beat Layne and therefore became a player at heavyweight, when the IBC suddenly spun on a dime to offer Matthews a shot at Maxim to divert him from the heavies. It might be pointed out also that Sands was a middleweight and rated in that division, and Bucceroni and Barone were Ko'd by Murphy and Nardico respectively. "Murphy" Murphy actually was the betting favorite against Maxim, but could be outboxed as both Matthews and Maxim proved. Spin it whichever way, but against their common foes, Murphy and Nardico, both highly rated, Matthews in my opinion did slightly better. Nardico had Maxim down. I consider Matthews even money against Maxim and probably a favorite against Mills if he could have gotten a shot at them. Moore was not the champion until after Matthews left the division. "Bob Foster" The difference is that Matthews defeated top heavyweight Rex Layne. Foster never defeated a top heavyweight. "why get beat by Archie Moore or Maxim for the lhvy title when you can get ko'd by Marciano" And if Hurley made the fight knowing that Matthews had no chance, why did he go ballistic in the dressing room in front of reporters about how Matthews let him down? Anyway, Moore aside, I think it is quite a stretch off their respective records to claim Matthews did not have a good chance against Maxim. Yes, it was a good post by Ed.
If you actually had the literacy skills to follow a thread you would have noticed that I was answering this post by Foreman Jab "Rocky Marciano was a huge puncher plain and simple. Anybody that downplays his ability to render grown men unconscious just has an anti Marciano agenda" For your benefit I have underlined the passage that I have rebutted. Now do you comprehend ?atsch This thread has gone 12 pages, it seems to be popular,and Im only just getting warmed up.