If Marciano Was Such A Dynamite Puncher?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He rendered JJW unconscious in1st fight,Layne,Louis,Vingo to name a few. There was a list earlier naming all of the other punchers and clean KO's and Marciano was still on top. I dont resort to personal attacks like you do against Mendoza and others, in fact Mendoza has shown lots of patience and humor with your cantankerous agenda laden folly :mj:lama:dance:arran:dunnowha::boxx:beat
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Haven't you got the balls to answer the question? Is it that hard to admit it? He didn't render unconscious ANY of his challengers.

    Cant you just say: YES YOU ARE RIGHT!
    Mendoza knows my opinion of him and so do you, he is a piece of dog ****.A lying coward who, like yourself ,tried to accuse me of racism/colour prejudice . You're nothing, an irrelevance who resorted to a personal attack on me, focusing on my age.
     
  3. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I was joking about your age like you were joking about having me on the mantle of your fireplace like a trophy, I dont take this to heart, its all in fun. I am probably close to your age but i am fit and confident of my ability despite my age and that is why it is absolutely joking :hi:
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    I'm not referring to your age or ability I'm referring to you not being able to say yes ,"your statement that Marciano never rendered unconscious any of his challengers is correct."


    I was joking about the mantel piece but I don't think you were in your response, I think you lost your temper
    If you want to keep things jocular leave Mendozy out of the equation . There's nothing humorous about sewage.
     
  5. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    again you were wrong again Marciano rendered Walcott,Layne,Vingo unconscious to name a few
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Who the hell did Carmine Vingo actually ever beat?
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    He didn't render any of his challengers unconscious which is the statement I have repeated several times and it cannot be contradicted or even argued about because we have film to emphatically confirm it.


    You just can't admit it.
    Well, how sad are you?
     
  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I've stayed away from this one but isn't obvious that pound for pound he was a brutal puncher ? It's extremely hard to ice anyone but is there really any argument as to if the man was a big puncher for an 185 pound guy ? I don't think he hit as hard as Shavers or Foreman but I also don't think Julian Jackson hit as hard as Rocky ..
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    A very good puncher, just not a terrific one punch ko artist in my opinion. Otherwise how do you explain him taking 9 rds of bludgeoning to stop ****ell and Moore? Both of whom were perfectly conscious at the times of their stoppages. How about Lastarza ? He took it, and took it ,and took it ?
    Do me a courtesy, watch these, just refresh your memory.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXaAlYJwxnc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pPfPUQopfg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDbNLDVSkR4
     
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Look, you clearly know there is a contingent that thinks the man walked on water, never got hurt, never got tired, fought men who never got old till after he fought them, ect .. I'm not one but I do think he was a big time puncher for a cruiser ..
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    I don't want to cross swords with you H.E. Yes he was a big puncher , but not in my estimation an alltime one-punch ko artist ,and the films of his title defences confirm it.

    ****ell, Moore, Charles were all kod by middleweights, none of them had particularly good chins, neither did Walcott or Lastarza who was dropped by 178lbs Rocky Jones, just 2 fights before he faced Marciano.
    That's my take on Rocky.:good
     
  12. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Sands was the 6th rated lightheavyweight in 1947 and the 4th in 1948."

    By Ring Magazine. Thanks for correcting me on this point. But why is being rated by Ring sufficient to make Sands a light-heavyweight but not sufficient to make Matthews a heavyweight? Sands could, and did, to the end of his life make 160 if he wanted and was rated at middle from 1949 to 1952.

    As for Matthews, the last time he made 175 was for the Danny Nardico fight on 12-5-1951. The lowest he got after that was 177, but for most fights he was over 180.

    What about his opponents. Here are their weights from the Nardico fight on, given in lbs.

    189--204--194--199--187--178--207--197--200--212--197--172--211--211--182--188--200

    Whatever The Ring and Nat Fleischer say, he was clearly fighting at heavyweight, where they did rate him in monthly ratings in 1952 and again in 1953, although they dropped him out of the ratings before the 1953 yearly ratings.


    **there are other odd ball ratings. Moore had a much more distinguished record at heavy than Maxim, but Maxim for some reason was rated both as the lightheavy champ and as a heavyweight contender, while Moore was only rated at lightheavy for years even though he had beaten top heavyweights, and even Fleischer considered him the top contender.
     
  13. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    By the way, why did Matthews fight at heavyweight. Fleischer gives a reason--

    Ring Magazine, February 1952 issue, page 38

    "While Archie Moore and Harry Matthews, the world's outstanding light-heavyweights, have frequently faced men in the next higher division, they have done so only because they couldn't obtain bouts in their own class."

    For Matthews, the reason was he was blacklisted by the IBC monopoly. This was such a scandal at the time that the US Senate actually became involved, forcing the IBC to offer him matches. Maxim fighting Murphy who had lost badly to Matthews was a rather obvious duck.

    Fleischer also gives his opinion of Matthews abilities as a fighter.

    The Ring Magazine, February, 1952 issue, page 38, third paragraph down in middle column

    "Robinson continues to stand out as the best all-around fighter in the middleweight division, though he lost prestige through his defeat by Turpin in Europe. While in the past we have honored Ray with the all-around championship as far as ability was concerned, this time THE RING selects Harry Matthews as the world's best all-around fighter of the year. His cleverness, hitting power, ring generalship, and triumphs over all opponents regardless of weight, has gained for him the post occupied by Robinson last year."
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Your own guess is not a fact,and as such has no relevance to this argument.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    What do you want to do ,cherry pick the parts that suit you and ignore the rest? You'll win lots of debates that way, but only in your own head.